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FEBRUARY 2 |
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FEBRUARY 2: Pick one character in this novel-- Mah, Leon, Leila, Nina, Ona-- and discuss the theme of mobility as it relates to him or her. How is this character mobile or made immobile? What means of mobility does he or she have or not have? Where does this character stand so far in this novel in terms of mobility? Another option is to discuss the importance of characters such as Mason, Osvaldo, or Luciano in terms of how they represent mobility to Leila and her family. Pick one character and discuss how he represents the theme of mobility. For whom does he provide mobility? Does his promise of mobility get fulfilled? |
[Message #2 09:21:42 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Tinoifili Elisara:
The person that I would like to speak upon mobility is Leila. I feel that Leila is a very immobile individual. The thing that is holding her back is her Mah and Leon. I don't know if it's because she is the eldest, that she would feel obligating to take care of her parents as they seem to be getting old. I can relate to this because as a Samoan, kids always feel that as their parents are getting older, someone is going to have to watch them and take care of them. Leila, I think is in this boat. When she was planning to move in with Mason, she was held back because of her Mah. Therefore instead of staying in Mission, she chose to stay in the alley with Mah. So that is what I feel is making Leila so immobile. The fact that she feels that she is the eldest, and has the obligation to stay behind and to take care of Mah and Leon. Leila shows her immobility, to be controlled by her Mah, on page 44 where it states that, "I moved back to the alley because Mah couldn't stand living with the question.......... The most important like that show her immobility was, "I moved back to the alley because Mah".
[Message #4 09:23:44 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Nick Bundy:
" Ten, fifteen minutes, Nina called right back. Everything Nina said - or didn't say - bothered me. I interpreted her
quiet as not wanting to come." p. 151 Nina's mobility is being sacraficed by Ona's death. She does not want to return to Salmon Alley, espeacially with the death of her sister. From Leila's tone, Nina feels an assumption of guilt for not being there and she hates the fact that this will be her reason for returning. In other words, she's not ready to face the family. Nina has lots of means of travel. She is a tour guide in NewYork and frequently leaves the country. So far, Nina is considered distant from the family. Sometimes to the family's liking and other times to their detrement.
[Message #5 09:10:58 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Susan Zavertnik:
Leila being the oldest in her family has taken on the responsibility of holding everything and everyone in her family together. She has to keep track of Leon for her mother and is made to act as the go between. She also must keep in contact with Nina while Nina is in New York and aprise Mah of what is going on. By doing so she has been forced to be immobile.
Leila has to search for Leon through Chinatown in order to bring him food or news of things going on in the family. Finding Leon is not an easy task so she must go to all of his local hangouts for instance Portsmouth Square, the lobby of the San Fran, and the Universal. She has to translate for Leon when he tries to get social security and takes him along with her when she goes to students families' homes. She has a lack of mobility because of her responsibility to take of Leon for her mother.
Leila seems to take care of getting everyone in the family together and informed. She had to go to the police station when Ona jumped off of Ping Yuen. She then had to tell her mother, then Leon, and her sister. She co-ordinated most of the funeral arrangements and getting everyone at the funeral. Enlisting Mason to help her was a little load off her shoulders but she was still tied down.
[Message #6 09:25:14 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
sergei marmysh:
THE THEME OF MOBILITY IS VERY GOOD REFLECTED BY LEILA'S CHARACTER. AFTER HER SISTER ONA COMITTED SUICIDE LEILA BEGINS TO ANALYSE HER OWN LIFE . SHE FEELS GUILTY FOR THE DEATH OF HER SISTER AND THAT WORRIES HER. BY THIS SHE EXPERIENCES PSYCHOLOGICAL TRAUMA. THAT STOPS HER FROM MOVING OUT OF TOWN, EVEN TO HER BOYFRIEND.
[Message #7 09:29:34 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Nick Bundy:
Good point, Tino. You picked the easiest character in the book you slacker. But good input and way to back up your point with a quote. I agree with your assesment of Leila.
[Message #27 09:34:58 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
akiko vela:
I like Leon. First he was kind of a no-good loser character. Since he was hanging out in the squre--do nothing. But more and more I read, more and more I lliked him. This story goes back ward. I liked his character when he was with his family back in those days when his daughters were growing up. I liked his love toward his family. He is naive, and trusty and hard worker, another word stupid. He is very human like. Lots of emotion. Anger, happiness, hatred, resentment, appreciation, and compassion. He mobiles within himself. He trips. He thinks of one thing and just go for it. For an example, when he went to look for granpa Leong's bone. Normal people will know that is probably impossible to find. However, he tries anyways. His whole life was unplanned. Everything happens just in a spur the moment kind of thing. He seemed to go just where ever the job was, but he've always loved his family. His heart is alway anchored in one place, however, his body was just every where. He did whatever to bring money to his family to make them happy, and to make their life as decent as possible.
[Message #29 09:37:16 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Tinoifili Elisara:
good point akiko, this story does go back wards and it confuses me too.
[Message #30 09:37:52 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Nick Bundy:
I thought that that was really cool, how we were almost readind a Star Wars prequel.
[Message #31 09:24:22 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Susan Zavertnik:
I thought I was the only one confused
[Message #32 09:38:51 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Nick Bundy:
Yeah I figured it out after rereading it about 20 times
[Message #33 09:25:10 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Susan Zavertnik:
did they ever mention what leon's real last name was?
[Message #35 12:37:27 PM, Thursday, February 03, 2000]
Karen Wong:
Nina seems to be the most intent on getting away from the family. She's the only one who provides Mah an "out," when she pays her way to Hong Kong. That seemed to be the only moment when Mah was genuinely happy, unburdened by day-to-day responsibilities.
[Message #43 09:40:17 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
akiko vela:
Isn't it Leon Leong?
[Message #44 12:39:19 PM, Thursday, February 03, 2000]
Karen Wong:
Akiko, great observation about the narrative structure. Why do you suppose the story was constructed such that we went backwards in time?
[Message #47 09:28:05 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Susan Zavertnik:
that was his paper last name i think
[Message #48 09:28:32 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Susan Zavertnik:
You know, Grandpa Leong gave him the papers
[Message #50 09:28:47 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Susan Zavertnik:
That means his name was really something else
[Message #51 09:43:01 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Tinoifili Elisara:
can someone refresh me onto when leon went to get grandpa's bones?
[Message #52 09:43:37 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Nick Bundy:
Definitely, he memorized someone else's past because he didn't trust the government
[Message #53 09:30:26 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Susan Zavertnik:
Mason took Leon to the chinese cemetary, the security guard caught them snooping around
[Message #54 09:30:47 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Susan Zavertnik:
Leon had showed up at Mason's shop on a "mission" of some kind.
[Message #55 09:44:33 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Tinoifili Elisara:
yeah, but who wanted the bones
[Message #56 09:45:28 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Nick Bundy:
He wnt with Mason. He showed up at Mason's work wanting to see the grave. So he wnt and chilled with Leon in Colma and Leon cound't remember where the grave site was
[Message #57 09:31:51 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Susan Zavertnik:
I'm a little fuzzy on the reason for getting the bones
[Message #58 09:45:30 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Tinoifili Elisara:
was it really at colma?
[Message #59 09:32:15 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Susan Zavertnik:
I think peace of mind perhaps. Something like he owed him respect
[Message #62 09:45:23 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
akiko vela:
I don't know why she chose to write back ward, but I really liked it. It was better that way after all. Beginning of the story was kind of annoying and she sounded very nagative about her parents and what they do. But it went back to the happy old days when they were growing up. Leon the father became bigger charactor then just a man hangs out in the China Town. Mah loved Leon, she cared about how she looked, and cleaned the house before Leon came home from sea. The whole family lighten up when he came back. No more salted fish for dinner and the breakfast.
[Message #64 09:32:55 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Susan Zavertnik:
There are a couple of them. My great grandmother is buried there with other relatives of mine.
[Message #65 09:46:52 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Tinoifili Elisara:
thank you akiko, noe i don't have to finish the book
[Message #66 09:46:58 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
akiko vela:
I think he went to look for it after Ona died. Because he thought that was part of the reason for his bad luck.
[Message #67 09:34:41 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Susan Zavertnik:
It's interesting to read about other families and seeing the similarities in my own
[Message #68 09:49:00 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Nick Bundy:
I'm sorry the bones are sacred and everyone that leased land in the cemetery did so for only a specific amount of time. After that time was up they collect all the bones under one surname an d put them together under one stonehead
[Message #69 12:46:56 PM, Thursday, February 03, 2000]
Karen Wong:
What is the significance of Leon never having gotten around to sending the bones back to China for a proper burial?
[Message #70 09:49:06 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Tinoifili Elisara:
your telling me, i would have never thought that asians would have similarities to samoans. being that we are an island on the other coast.
[Message #72 09:49:42 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
akiko vela:
I meant Ona jumped.
[Message #74 09:37:10 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Susan Zavertnik:
The spirit is unsettled. All old timers never intended to stay in america. They always thought the families would respect their wishes and send the bones back to be buried in their homeland. By not doing so, Leon owes grandpa Leong. It's like unsettled business
[Message #75 09:37:50 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Susan Zavertnik:
Leon feels as though he has disrespected the privilage grandpa leong gave him
[Message #76 09:51:08 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
akiko vela:
Ahhhhhh
[Message #2 09:23:53 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Cynthia Ho:
1.) Leila is consider to be immobile. There are a lot of factors which keep her from moving. First there's her mother. Mah was stuck with the feeling of guilt and loneliness. Lei doesn't want to leave Mah alone. That was the reason why she stay at Salmon Alley. She was also not as adventurous as her other sisters. Ona, for example, pg.130 "She loved the fun of getting close to the danger and the thrill of getting away." Her other sister Nina, moved to New York when she had the chance to. So she felt responsible to take care of Mah. She was also the one who cares about how her parents felt. For example, Nina asked if she should tell her parents about her new boyfriend, and Lei said no. It wasn't a good time since there was problems in the family. Lei didn't even know how to tell Mah about her being married to Mason. This shows that she is a weak person inside, eventhough she might seem strong on the outside. People on the streets or people who knows her family kind of stop her from moving on also. They keep on reminding her of the past. Lei wanted to move in with Mason, but always feel bad to leave Mah alone. She cannot go on living HER own life. So far, in this novel, she is beginning to realize that she haas to do something about her life. She now know that the life she is living is not really her own, but she is living for everyone else.
[Message #3 09:24:49 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Dandy Wong:
the mobility or lack of it in relation to Lei is close to none or very minute. she is living the typical chinese life, grow up, get a job close to home so you can take care of the parents when its time to. she is, in fact immobile. everything that she does revolves around teh lives of her family, in particular to her parents. every thought, action, and instance brings her uncomfort and worry. she feels obligated to help her mother run the shop, translate information from english to spanish--to be the interpertator. nothing she does seems to make herself happy. i guess she feels since she's the oldest girl she needs to take this responsibility upon herself, even if it means she becomes unhealthy because of it. and no matter what she does it doesn't seem to be enough.
Lei is constantly blaming herself for the death of Ong. in the text, she even refers to her failure to do everything right, "Like Leon and Mah, I went over every moment I had with Ona and tried to find my own moment of failure" (p.106). she contemplates on the past, never moving forward. she lets herself become a worry-wort and seems to be self-destructive. in relating how she can't move, she is haunted by the past, wanting to make amends for her previous failures by making the present different, learning from her mistake with Ona.
[Message #4 09:23:33 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Kelly Wu:
I think Mason plays a significant role in providing Leila with some sort of mobility. Eventhough Leila feels "obligated" to live at home with Mah, Mason wants her to move in with him. Mason may be trying to help Leila move on with her life, away from constant reminders of her past. Mason is understanding to her family problems and provides unbiased support yet giving her some insight or realization that she needs to move on. Mason seems to be more "americanized" while Leila seems to be the "traditional" type. She's trying to step away from her bound duties but realizing that she needs to move on.
[Message #5 09:25:15 PM, Tuesday, February 01, 2000]
Alla Marmysh:
As I think about the theme of mobility in the book I associate this theme with the character of Leon. In his past he traveled a lot since he worked on a ship and in the book he moves from his house and comes back and moves again, it is interesting though that he is the one who said , "The heart never travels". In this sense I think that the theme of mobility is connected with a theme of home, family, and devotion.
[Message #6 09:22:07 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
ruben arceo:
LEON:
FIRST PHASE OF MOBILITY -- TO EARN A LIVING
SECOND PHASE OF MOBILITY -- TO MAKE MONEY & STAY AWAY FROM A RUMOR THAT MAH WAS SLEEPING WITH TOMMIE HOM WHILE HE WAS AWAY
THIRD PHASE OF MOBILITY -- TO PARTIALLY ACCEPT THAT PERCEPTION ABOUT HIS
A HUSBAND TO MAH AND JUST BLAST OFF WHENEVER HE FEELS LIK
[Message #7 09:28:45 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Kelly Wu:
dandy--- i agree with what you wrote on how leila "contemplates on the past, never moving forward". that's where i think mason comes into the picture and will eventually help her out of it...
[Message #8 09:31:33 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Dandy Wong:
kelly--yeah, i feel that he can help her too. i think if it weren't for him, she would never move forward. hmm....remind you of someone???
[Message #9 09:32:31 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Dandy Wong:
sorry for those of you who don't know what i'm talking about...i'm referring to my sister
[Message #10 09:32:36 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Cynthia Ho:
Hey guys....i have a question, can someone explain about the Ong & Leong laundry???
[Message #11 09:32:09 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Kelly Wu:
If that is past page 100, i'm not there yet...
[Message #13 09:33:22 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Kelly Wu:
Dandy--- i can't find the correlation btw leila and that someone you are talking about... at least leila is not dependent on mason...
[Message #14 09:34:41 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Dandy Wong:
cynthia--i think that the business deal btw. the Ong's and Leong's went bad and then Ona and Osvaldo got together...against their parents will
[Message #15 09:35:04 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Cynthia Ho:
oh..ok....that's right...i kinda remember about that.
[Message #16 09:36:16 PM, Tuesday, February 01, 2000]
Alla Marmysh:
leon Leong lost his money in the landry because of other partner Ong
[Message #17 09:36:00 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Dandy Wong:
kelly--you have a gd point, i guess Lei has it better then huh
[Message #21 12:34:06 PM, Thursday, February 03, 2000]
Karen Wong:
Leon is quite a fascinating character. We find out from the very beginning that he had no intentions of staying in the US on page 57, and yet he returns over and over again to San Francisco, even after he has found out about Mah's affair. At least, though, he has an escape, an "out" when he needs one. Notice that he ships out for two reasons: (1) to earn money, and (2) to escape his problems at home.
[Message #22 09:37:50 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Cynthia Ho:
Yeah,....but i also thinks that he stay in S.F because that's the only place he feels comfortable in. He has all his friends there.
[Message #23 09:38:25 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Dandy Wong:
yeah, he has this traditional "chinese" way of dealing with problems at home. and rather than talking about it or seeking counseling he finds peace in leaving home and not facing it
[Message #24 09:37:15 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Kelly Wu:
i think, in general, most people keep themselves really busy when they are stressed or when they are trying to escape from problems.. notice how he's always collecting junk, building or crafting something.
[Message #25 09:38:46 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Cynthia Ho:
He wants to make use of old junks....maybe that's how he thinks of himself.
[Message #26 09:38:13 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Kelly Wu:
that's a good point.
[Message #27 09:39:28 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Dandy Wong:
espeicallly from my experiences, i see men when theyre angry or stressed go deep into his own self
[Message #28 09:38:48 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Kelly Wu:
especially asian men, they never show any kind of emotion... only anger.
[Message #29 09:40:30 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Dandy Wong:
mainly when men do that, they find peace to think quietly amongst themselves
[Message #30 09:40:17 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Cynthia Ho:
that's not really true... but then again....yes
[Message #31 09:40:53 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Dandy Wong:
kelly--yeah, don't you know Men are from Mars and Women are from Venus
[Message #38 09:42:18 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Cynthia Ho:
Hey...did anyone read to the part why Ona killed herself??
[Message #39 09:39:54 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
ruben arceo:
KELLY, ANGER IS AN EMOTION, PLS QUALIFY!
[Message #40 09:41:49 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Kelly Wu:
no.. but i want to know though
[Message #41 09:43:34 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Dandy Wong:
especaily asian men...yeah kelly. i think it has something to do with the pride men have...like never asking for directions...it gives them a sense of autonomy...
[Message #42 09:44:23 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Dandy Wong:
and relsoving problems on their own...without teh constant chatter of his wife(i apologize) he probably can think better
[Message #43 09:43:34 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Kelly Wu:
escaping from the core of the problem too.
[Message #44 09:45:12 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Dandy Wong:
kelly---yeah that is especially the reason…not having to face the problem...being away from it can give him a sense of what needs to be done to fix it.,....
[Message #48 09:46:45 PM, Tuesday, February 01, 2000]
Alla Marmysh:
About the Ona, leon ,her father said to her stop seeing osvaldo who was the son of Ong and he said that she will not his dauter anymore.And she loved her father and she loved osveldo. this is what was said in the book.
[Message #49 09:46:27 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Dandy Wong:
hey...anyone out there can link the titile of the book to its content
[Message #50 09:43:37 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
ruben arceo:
DANDY, YOU DON'T HAVE TO APOLOGIZE WHEN IT COMES TO FEMALE NAGGING!
[Message #51 09:46:58 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Dandy Wong:
thank you
[Message #52 09:46:08 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Kelly Wu:
doesn't bone refer to the fact that leon didn't bring grandpa leong's bones back to china and because of that, they encountered bad luck
[Message #53 09:47:24 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Cynthia Ho:
Alla - Thank you.
[Message #54 09:48:11 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Dandy Wong:
i thought that tooo... but i just figured it had some oh-so-deeper meaning ot it
[Message #55 09:48:51 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Dandy Wong:
you know...like it refers to the placement of something or something
[Message #56 09:48:49 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Kelly Wu:
well bones are a part of the past and there's a quote in pg. 89 that says "remembering the past gives power to the present"... any link to that? maybe?
[Message #57 09:49:46 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Cynthia Ho:
I am not sure about this, but i think that the bone is the most painful part of the body that you can break...so maybe it is talking about how that family is like???
[Message #58 09:50:21 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Cynthia Ho:
But bone also heal.
[Message #59 09:49:26 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Kelly Wu:
cynthia.. yeah, that can be true...
[Message #60 09:51:22 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Dandy Wong:
yeah--i wrote something bout that...
[Message #61 09:51:43 PM, Tuesday, February 01, 2000]
Alla Marmysh:
It takes long time for healing a bone
[Message #62 09:51:09 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Cynthia Ho:
Bone is also the framework of the body...maybe it has something to do with the structure of their family??
[Message #63 09:51:59 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Dandy Wong:
that the signifigance of it was becase he didn't bury the bones on time
[Message #64 09:53:41 PM, Tuesday, February 01, 2000]
Alla Marmysh:
Bone can be refer to the origin
[Message #2 09:22:50 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Joyce G:
In the theme of mobility, I picked Mason. Throughout the book, Mason provides mobility by being the middle man or the bridge between Leila and her parents and family. Because of him being there, he gets involved with the situations and problems that Leila and her family go through. I always seem to find Mason "fetching" after Leon or looking out for him, making sure that he's ok and not in trouble somewhere; i also see him comforting Mah when she's depressed and sad, and reassuring Lei that everything will be alright when times get rough and frustrating. I think his promise of mobility gets fulfilled because if it wasn't for his availability, Leila and her family would probably have been in a more worse situation.
[Message #3 09:23:39 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Noele Lusano:
Mah is immobile. I chose to write on her, because I feel she was the one character in the story that was going nowhere mentally, emotionally, even physically, fast.Leon is mobile. He gets out at least, whether it be with friends, on boats, playing chess, or getting lost around town. He doesn't appear to be the type who is outrightedly hung up on things.Leila is immobile. Not as much as Mah, though. Nina is mobile. Literally. Ona, obviously, is immobile.
Though I think that Leila is immobile in several ways, I believe that her mother is more of a stick in the mud than she. Mah is hung up over various things and never seems to want to let personal matters subside. Rather, she will wear herself out on issues that, in my opinion, aren't worth getting worked up about. Issues such as Leon, the small disagreement regarding her daughter's marriage, but most specifically the whole episode on Ona, her daughter that she lost to suicide. In times that Mah should be moving on with her life, she remains at a complete standstill. She wants things just as she left them, just as they are. I can empathise and understand how a death in the family could cause such damage, but I feel that everyone knows the key to happiness after that point is not dwelling on the past. An example that further goes to prove Mah's immobility is small in literal size, yet quite substantial to me: the time that Leila went to visit her mother at the Baby Shop. Though Leila felt that things needed rearranging, Mah preferred that her daughter leave things alone, put away in drawers and left there. In a way, that one situation goes to parallel Mah's personality on a larger scale--things in her life needed to be rearranged, prioritized maybe, important and immediate things brought to the front and past issues to the background, to the past. Small, abstract situation, but that's the way I see it.
[Message #5 09:25:31 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Sean Dizon:
Leila's mobility is very limited while her sister Nina 's is very strong. Leila seems as though she is trying to keep her family together by keeping in close contact with everybody. She keeps in contact very much with her mother Mah and even though they get into fights, everything seems to work out in the end. They have family get togethers over dinner and that is something that Leila seems to enjoy. She tried to get Leon to come over to dinner even though he had been on ship working for forty days. She is very much the peace keeper in the family, while it seems as though everybody has moved on in life. She has plenty of things going for her such as being in a relationship with Mason who can support and hold his own. She feels as though she does not have to worry about him and that he is a strong understanding person. She goes out of her way to do things for people such as the time when she took off work with Mason to meet Leon down in Vallejo. I feel as though she does not want to be mobile and she wants to be connected with her family. She does not want to be on her own like her sister Nina who lives in New York. She has a stable job working as a counselor and helping out troubled kids.
[Message #6 09:24:09 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Monique Dubief:
Mobility in Mason:
Mason works as a mechanic and he inspects and repairs many cars during the day. He deals with people a bit the same way;he is a good "driver", can "switch" from one mood and mode toanother and maneuvers through difficulties. He compares Leila's immobile steadfast anger to an excess of gas. (Page 19: "He says my anger is like flooding - too much gas, killing the engine." Mason has a sense of moderation.
Mason is mobile in many ways: physically (he gets in , out, under all those cars.; spatially: he drives himself around, and people upon need or/and pleasure (Leila, and Leon when necessary). Culturally, he is mobile enough for living in the Mission where there are different ethnic groups; economically: he migh also bemobile enough (He has the desire to open his own shop); he is mobile in his affections (although he is very faithfuland attached to Leila) in this respect that he gets along with all the members of Leila's family and treats them all a little differently, according to their own vulnerabilties.
[Message #7 09:27:43 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
rosyn park:
So, today is the first day I am being introduced to the book, Bone. Being that I have never even opened up the book, no less have read any of the pages, all I can do is note on the topic of mobility and how I perceive it to relate to the asian community. I know that the characters in this book are connected to the term "immigrant" either through first-hand experience or through their parents.
I am a child of Korean immigrants. My parents left Korea in order gain a more better life in America like many others. For me, the word "mobility" holds a bitter-sweet duality. I know my parents immigrated to America in order to allow my siblings and I the opportunities that we would not necessarily be afforded in Korea. But just the same, we are binded to the old traditions that represent culture and respect. I know that when my parents are older, it is the responsibility of my siblings and I to take care of them. It is also a shared idea among first generation immigrants, that it is good for the bond of the family to stay close among one another. When you are bonded to this kind of responsibility, sometimes it is hard to move on and make a life soley for yourself.
[Message #8 09:28:54 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Joyce G:
So guys, do you think it's about time that Leila should move on? Or should she stick with her mother and Leon?
[Message #9 09:31:09 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Noele Lusano:
In my opinion, Leila doesn't want to be immobile (who really does?), but with everything going on around her with the rest of the characters, she's kind of falling into that position.
[Message #10 09:31:49 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Noele Lusano:
Playing babysitter to Leon in a sense by chasing him around town. Leila isn't immobile literally, but I think she is in the mental sense.
[Message #11 09:32:38 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Sean Dizon:
leila should stay immobile since she has everything going for her
[Message #12 09:31:35 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Joyce G:
i think she is totally immobile...she's still dwelling in the past and that's what's stopping her from moving on...
[Message #13 09:32:03 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Joyce G:
she's a grown woman and she already doing so much for her family...
[Message #14 09:33:19 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Sean Dizon:
I don't think she wants to move on
[Message #15 09:32:11 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Joyce G:
it's about time she think for herself.
[Message #16 09:33:16 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
rosyn park:
From reading all of your guys' comments, I guess it is safe to say that it seems as though all or most of the women are immobile while the male characters such as a Mason have the mobility to do as what they want.
[Message #17 09:32:53 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Joyce G:
good observation rosyn...
[Message #18 09:34:10 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Sean Dizon:
i think that is if she moves on then she would lose all of her family heritage or she wouldnt be close to her mother.
[Message #19 09:33:22 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Joyce G:
it is actually true though, the men are always somewhere doing something, while the women are pretty much stationary
[Message #20 09:33:53 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Joyce G:
that's true sean, but it's also tearing her apart from her life...
[Message #21 09:34:02 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Joyce G:
especially her life with mason
[Message #22 09:34:02 PM, Tuesday, February 01, 2000]
m sevilla:
re: men being the ones that are mobile...what about nina? is she more of an secondary character, meant to isolate leila in her "immobility?"
[Message #23 09:35:00 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Noele Lusano:
I don't think she (Leila) realizes her immobility for the most part...since, yeah, she's got Mason who's a free spirit (or so it seems)
[Message #24 09:35:21 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
rosyn park:
I think that one can move on while still keeping their heritage/culture/past. It's just a matter of having a steady balance between the two. Just because you move on doesn't mean you forget where you came from.
[Message #25 09:35:51 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Sean Dizon:
but Mason is a understanding guy who knows that its important that she keep in contact with her mother.
[Message #26 09:35:26 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Joyce G:
but how far and how long can mason take that?
[Message #27 09:36:48 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Sean Dizon:
i dunno…i guess as long as he has to
[Message #29 09:36:33 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Noele Lusano:
About Nina...I think she's there in the story to make us realize how tied down Leila really is in comparison.
[Message #30 09:36:06 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Joyce G:
regarding nina....it's all just a front for her...she seems to be denying the whole situation....i think in a way she is immobile herself.
[Message #31 09:37:20 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Sean Dizon:
they are complete opposites
[Message #33 09:37:38 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Noele Lusano:
AGE/LOC/NAT? j/k
[Message #34 09:36:52 PM, Tuesday, February 01, 2000]
m sevilla:
we assume that moving on, means moving forward, and that moving forward means forgetting the past... what do you guys think?
[Message #35 09:37:03 PM, Tuesday, February 01, 2000]
m sevilla:
noele: hahaa =P
[Message #37 09:38:31 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Noele Lusano:
Does anyone think Leon is immobile?
[Message #38 09:39:21 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Sean Dizon:
Leon enjoys being on his own
Message #40 09:38:07 PM, Tuesday, February 01, 2000]
m sevilla:
it seems that these characters' immobility has a lot to do with them not letting go of the past... are they literally not doing anything new, or accepting anything new presented to them?
[Message #41 09:38:26 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Joyce G:
although leon is physically mobile, i believe he is mentally immobile
[Message #42 09:38:14 PM, Tuesday, February 01, 2000]
m sevilla:
that didn't make sense...
[Message #43 09:39:39 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Sean Dizon:
he took that job to go work on the ship for forty days
[Message #44 09:39:38 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Noele Lusano:
Joyce G: I think so too
[Message #45 09:39:08 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Joyce G:
his mind is still dwelling in the past, going to different places is just another way to run from his problems.
[Message #46 09:40:06 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Joyce G:
this family just needs to move on...
[Message #47 09:40:16 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Joyce G:
too much drama for me
[Message #48 09:40:07 PM, Tuesday, February 01, 2000]
m sevilla:
joyce: on that note, do you think that there's a chance that the women who aren't physically moving, that they may in their minds have a better chance of actually moving on?
[Message #49 09:41:35 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Sean Dizon:
this family is disfunctional
[Message #50 09:40:31 PM, Tuesday, February 01, 2000]
m sevilla:
sean: aren't all families dysfunctional?
[Message #51 09:40:55 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Joyce G:
it'll probably go both ways...
[Message #52 09:42:14 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Sean Dizon:
TrUe
[Message #53 09:41:12 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Joyce G:
but it's just weird how the men are so mobile and the women are not
[Message #54 09:41:57 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
rosyn park:
I think that you can put things in the past, and when you address the past and become comfortable with it you can put it away. I mean, there are gonna be times when the past comes up, but that is totally different from trying to keep the past in the present...like living the past everyday.
[Message #55 09:42:21 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Noele Lusano:
I think they need to get out more, be more accepting of things, maybe through those means they'll change
[Message #56 09:42:25 PM, Tuesday, February 01, 2000]
m sevilla:
joyce: i think it has to do with men being raised to not address emotional things... and so when something they can't handle comes up, they flee-- physically. at least to distract themselves for the moment.
[Message #57 09:43:46 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Noele Lusano:
Hey, that's very true...I've seen it in my own personal experiences...good point
[Message #58 12:41:02 PM, Thursday, February 03, 2000]
Karen Wong:
Mah is an interesting character. I can't help but feel a little tinge of sadness for her because her life has been so difficult. She is stranded by her husband in SF, and then she is financially stranded later in life when Leon invests their life savings in the laundry. She works so hard, yet her life doesn't seem to be moving forward at all.
[Message #59 09:44:19 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Sean Dizon:
iS THAT SO ?
[Message #60 09:43:11 PM, Tuesday, February 01, 2000]
m sevilla:
i guess that's why some of the greatest geniuses of our time have really messed up personal lives-- they put all their focus on work
[Message #61 09:44:13 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Noele Lusano:
HA!
[Message #62 09:44:24 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Joyce G:
very true, m sevilla
[Message #63 09:45:10 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
rosyn park:
I think that culture can be accounted for as maybe a reason for the females in this book being so immobile. It is traditional that the women stay home and do domestic things instead of going out into the world and experiencing life.
[Message #64 09:45:10 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Joyce G:
i do feel so sorry for mah....there seems to be no life for her, let alone a life ahead of her.
[Message #65 09:46:28 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Sean Dizon:
Her life is set
[Message #66 09:45:10 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Monique Dubief:
I do not believe that Leila is "immobile", more paralysed like in some ways, and in a perpetual conflict. But being in conflict is also the
symptom that changes would be necessary. On the other end, Nina's apparent total mobility (she lives back East, far away from home, works for the airlines and is inconstant motion) might be made of rejection and avoidance of conflicts. It is a "surgical" way of avoiding conflicts (like severing a limb; it does not restore life, though). Same with Leon whi frets around here and there ; hismobility is also double-edged. It is made of escapism and avoidance, but it works for him to a certain extent; going to sea is a kind of salvation for him. (I guess the infinity of the sea gives a different perspective to personal troubles.). But Leila being the most complex character in the book (because she wants to integrate all the irreconcilable and does not want to sacrifice or forget anything or anybody has obviously more difficulty "moving on" although she constantly oscillates from one emotion to another, and that is movement too. Only while being with Mason can she totally put aside the rest of her personality and only in his arms can she become a new young woman without painful emotions.
I am not sure that Mah is totally immobile and stuck as some of you have said. After all, she enjoyed her trip to Honk Hong with Nina. When she is proposed some ways to escape herself and her pain, she takes the opportunity. Also, in her love life, it seems that she did take a certain amount of risk for a woman of her background; she had 2 husbands and a lover in between; apparently, these were 3 very different men; that is a start!
[Message #67 09:46:08 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Noele Lusano:
I'm not really sure, but I think that Mah is responsible for the way she is, moreso than Leon is for causing trouble. She just seems really tied up mentally...I could be wrong, I don't know...
[Message #68 09:46:31 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Noele Lusano:
I just feel that it's not all Leon's doing...
[Message #69 12:43:46 PM, Thursday, February 03, 2000]
Karen Wong:
great play on words in regards to Mason, Monique (message #6)
[Message #70 12:44:19 PM, Thursday, February 03, 2000]
Karen Wong:
Rosyn, actually your life story in some ways parallels Leila's. She, too, is bound by this sense of responsibility for her parents.
[Message #71 12:45:21 PM, Thursday, February 03, 2000]
Karen Wong:
Joyce, great question in #8. She is sacrificing quite a bit of her own life to maintain the family. It might be interesting to explore what she is gaining as well as what she is losing in choosing to play the part of mediator.
[Message #72 09:47:36 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Joyce G:
good points, monique!!!
[Message #73 09:48:42 PM, Tuesday, February 01, 2000]
m sevilla:
i don't know how to follow up that one
[Message #2 09:21:34 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Tiffany Lee:
1) Leila seems like she is made extremely immobile by the death of Ona, and everything that it means to her and her family. Just as she was about to move out of Salmon Alley, Ona jumped making it difficult for her to move in with Mason, leaving her family especially her mother who already blamed herself alone. She felt obligated to continue staying there despite her obvious desire for a change of atmosphere and the general growth of her own identity and life. That made her literally immobile. Emotionally she was immobile because it seems like she relates everything around Ona's death. Page 129 middle paragraph describes very obviously that she and her family revolve around the death of Ona. "I thought all I wanted was to get out of Salmon Alley, to live in the Mission with Mason, but it was Ona." She goes on to repeat this throughout the paragraph- "it was Ona". This shows that a lot of her emotional baggage stems from her sister's death and causes much of the monotony of her life to stay monotonous because of the events that occurred following this event. She can't move out, her relationships with her whole family are affected because of the death, her parents' marriage continues to deteriorate because of blame and much of her emotional capacity is consumed by the incident. This makes her very emotionally and mentally immobile, everything in her life seems to be stagnant, as the world she lives in seems to fester around that event.
[Message #3 09:22:00 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Michael Mark:
Another option is to discuss the importance of characters such as Mason, Osvaldo, or Luciano in terms of how they represent mobility to Leila and her family. Pick one character
liela's mobility is some what limited to the commitment to her mom.being there for her mah trying to get them out of thinking about ona's death. her mobility is living and being with mason,going to see nina in n.y. .also when nina and mah take a trip to the orient..unfortunately they only seem to be temporary reliefs. "band aid fixes" for lingering problems. no matter what she does to get away from the family issues,her being the eldest child she always seems to feel responsible to the family issues (very important to the chinese culture). evryone tells her to just do your own thing and live her life ,not leon's and mah's.she is very "wishy washy " about it does'nt know who to please.
[Message #4 09:21:59 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Euphemia Li:
I would like to talk about Mah's mobility. Actually I think she really wants to move on of her life. She wants to change her life style and move out from Chinatown. Unfortnately, she made couple of mistakes in her life. She wanted to marry Tommie Hom in the beginning, but he turned her down and then she married Leon. But she doesn't love her a lot. Comparing the background of Tommie Hom and Leon, Tommie owns the factory and Salmon Alley, and Leon has nothing at all. I guess Mah wants Tommie to bring her out of the factory, she doesn't want to be a sewing lady anymore. But Leon cannot bring her any change, she still traps in the Chinatown. This unclear relationship between Mah and these two men give a hard time to her daughters.
Moreover, when Leon opened the laundry with Ong outside of Chinatown, Mah did put a lot of efforts on it. She even quit her job and helping Leon handle the laundry, and she also reminded Leon to deal with the client with Ong. She push pretty hard to let her husband to be success. Finally, Ong cheated them, they lost all their money, time and energy.
[Message #6 09:26:02 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Erika Inouye:
Leila is made immobile because she is caught in between the old Chinese ways and the American culture which she has adapted to. She still lives in SF whereas Nina has moved all the way. This shows some relation to the fact that physical mobilitity is connected to emotional mobility. The same can be related in the bigger comparison of China and America. Leila does not live in China and therefore does not feel the connection that some of her elders have. Her mobility, or lack of is determined by her family, her friends, and the environment that she chooses put herself in. Her job is a communicator between the first generation Chinese parents and the children who are being taught in American schools. It seems as though, Leila has put herself in the middle of the two: on the one hand there is the old ways, tradition, roots. On the other side, there is a new culture, and adjustment of new ways of being taught. On page 16, she even uses the "This isn't China defense" although her actions do not speak of that. She is constantly trying to find her place in her mother's world of old tradition despite her disagreement.
Leila is constantly discussing Ona's death. She sees her mother has not yet learned to move on with her life, always asking herself if there was anything that she might have said to prevent it. Leila follows after her mother and asks the same question of herself. Surrounding her is Waverly Place, where ther is a reference on p. 7 that says it now includes places named "First Chinese Baptist Church
[Message #7 09:27:15 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Tiffany Lee:
Euphemia, how is the failure of the laundry pertinent to Mahs immobility?
[Message #8 09:27:44 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Bette McDonnell:
Mason represents mobility to Leila & her family
Mason represents mobility to Leila. Main symbol of mobility: the car! On the literal level, this, of course, is a means of moving. Symbolically, Mason is Leila's means of moving. Though deepening her relationship with him, she can let go of her past, the ties that bind her to her mother and family. Her relationship with him is now stagnant but bordering on change. He is keen for her to spend more time with him especially now that they're married. Page 18 - The way they got married too suggests flight, hurried, near desperation: "Last minute like refugees, a strange city. Hurried. A borrowed dress. No rings. Just yes, yes." Like refugees . . . she is fleeing, escaping from her past.
[Message #9 09:27:46 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Euphemia Li:
Actually I think Mah always wants there is someone who will bring her out of Chinatown.
[Message #10 09:30:28 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Tiffany Lee:
Bette, I agree with how Mason represents mobility for Leila and her family-I think also, that he is also acting as a mediator a lot of times allowing for family dicussions or arguements to move along and also getting her to move out of Salmon Alley and pursue a life of her own with him
[Message #11 09:30:55 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Tiffany Lee:
Euphemia-I see
[Message #12 09:29:29 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Euphemia Li:
I agree with you guys, Leila always lives in between modern and tradition, mentally she wants to move on, but she doesn't try it progressively
[Message #13 09:32:10 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Erika Inouye:
Well written Tiffany. I have the same feelings that Leila cannot move on mainly because of Ona's death
[Message #14 12:30:53 PM, Thursday, February 03, 2000]
Karen Wong:
To add to Euphemia's message about Mah, I couldn't help but notice how happy Mah appeared to be when she finally got a chance to travel to Hong Kong. Ever since she moved to SF, she hasn't had a chance to get away.
[Message #15 09:32:28 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Michael Mark:
old world chinese always wants to be traditional things ;like wedding banquets and so forth,large gatherings. to show off and not lose face. liela on the other hand just don;t like it all the fuss and thiunks it 's such a waste of time and money.
[Message #16 09:34:16 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Tiffany Lee:
Thanks Erika I think your answer and mine have a lot in common.
[Message #17 09:33:39 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Michael Mark:
mah is basically back in her element going to h.k.at peace with herself in her element.
[Message #18 09:34:23 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Erika Inouye:
Euphemia, what do you think will bring Mah out of Chinatown? The only place she ever went, was back to Hong Kong to visit.
[Message #19 09:34:20 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Euphemia Li:
Actually the author mentioned in the book, she wants a shop away from Chinatown. Because her whole life is there, she seems no power to change it
[Message #20 09:36:04 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Tiffany Lee:
Michael, what do you mean?
[Message #21 09:36:47 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Bette McDonnell:
Response to Michael Mark from Bette
Yes, I agree w/you re. Leila's committment to her family. She is held captive by her sense of duty, responsibility, GUILT! This feeling of guilt seems so pervasive. Are responsibility and guilt somewhat synonymous in Chinese culture? Leila and Mah definitely seem to claim more than their fair share. These feelings are holding them back. However, sometimes it takes people a long time to learn the lessons that are being given them . . . so then they may either get "stuck" before being able to see/understand what they need to learn for their emotional development from the experience, i.e., their attitude to Ona's suicide.
Ona moved on in the only way she knew how at that time. . . . mobility of a kind.
[Message #22 09:36:59 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Euphemia Li:
Most of Chinese are pretty conservative, Ona's suicide make them live under the shadow
[Message #23 09:38:05 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Michael Mark:
ona's method of mobolity is considered extreme,but not un heard of.it brings alot of shame and discomfort to the family
[Message #24 09:39:46 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Tiffany Lee:
especially since they live in chinatown and sewing ladies are very gossipy
[Message #25 09:39:44 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Erika Inouye:
Bette- your connection of Mason with leila's mobility is tied in with what Euphemia said about Mah. She relied on a man to give her mobility. She still looks towards leon for some kind of mobility or assurance. She still offered him tea when leila came to pick up some things even though she doesnt get along with him.
[Message #26 09:40:22 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Tiffany Lee:
it seemed like the discomfort and shame was magnified by the whole community being awre of the situation
[Message #27 09:40:30 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Michael Mark:
some people don't deal with their problems very well.in cases i see they either gamble it away,drink it out of them, fight ,argue etc.
[Message #28 09:42:49 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Erika Inouye:
so how do you think Leila deals with her problems Michael?
[Message #29 09:41:50 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Euphemia Li:
They cannot manage their stress. For example, Leon blam that is Mah's fault to deal with Ong. He also forbide Ona continue date with Ovsalod, In some, I think all of they cannot accept the reality
[Message #31 09:43:50 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Tiffany Lee:
I think they all thrive on the miserable quagmire of displaced blame
[Message #34 09:44:44 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Tiffany Lee:
Do you guys feel that the book's power is greatly limited by the repition
[Message #35 09:45:08 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Tiffany Lee:
repitition and dwelling on Ona's death?
[Message #36 09:44:38 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Michael Mark:
that's what some peoplpe thrive on when they have nothing else to do or blame
[Message #37 09:46:09 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Bette McDonnell:
Erika, enjoyed your comments and observations. I am gaining a better understanding of just how difficult it must be to try to straddle two such greatly differnt cultures. I must admit I don't really care too much for Ng's style of writing nor do I find the characters very compelling (I don't like or dislike them intensely). But, these discussions are good - they help me to see things I hadn't before. I must try not to let my personal writing-style preferences interfere with the important (sometimes subtle) messages in the story. Do you like her writing?
[Message #38 09:45:08 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Euphemia Li:
Actually I don't like the characters at all, they all have some kind of sickness. But her writing is clear and straight forward.
[Message #39 09:45:44 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Michael Mark:
i've noticed that in a lot of people,especially family members who don't know how to deal with things.
[Message #40 09:47:03 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Tiffany Lee:
personally I feel that the subject of how the family is in turmoil, is getting rather trite that's all. I do appreciate the subject matter and I feel the characters involved are dynamic.
[Message #41 09:47:23 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Erika Inouye:
It is very simplistic. As Tiffany says- a lot of repetition. But isnt that similar to life? No one likes change. The hardest thing about getting over something, is just that-getting over it and moving on.
[Message #42 09:48:17 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Tiffany Lee:
Maybe by making them all pretty much stuck and really wallowing in their lives (with the exception of nina) Ng is trying to portray how it feels to live in Chinatown dealing iwth a death dealing with the culture that we are all sort of caught between
[Message #43 09:48:42 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Michael Mark:
i think ng's writing style is great,makes actually feel there pain. i can easily relate to the story of being there for the family and taking responsibiliteis. i figure we all live lives similar to thiers.
[Message #44 09:48:24 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Euphemia Li:
It's not easy to move one, especially they have a lot of family problems. I don't think Leila wants to fix up the problems, she only escape from it, that's why she always wants to move out.
[Message #45 09:50:05 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Tiffany Lee:
I can also relate to the story
[Message #46 09:50:53 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Tiffany Lee:
But it seems like she can't escape the problems because she is helping the problems by letting them linger don't you agree?
[Message #47 09:51:30 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Bette McDonnell:
Tiffany, your analysis/recap is good. Leila is definitely conflicted by so many aspects of her life. She is torn between past and present, by her desire to care for her mother and desire to be with Mason.
[Message #48 09:50:12 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Michael Mark:
true it is not easy to mve on but you have too.if you don't you might as welll shoot yourself.
[Message #49 09:50:51 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Erika Inouye:
Very true Tiffany. The thing is that in the book, I got sort of a negative feeling about Nina. That her move the NY was not very respectful to Mah or to her "Chinese-ness" (for lack of a better word). There is constant reference to Nina being attracted to non-Chinese...as if it is bad? She will not loose any more culture or tradition.
[Message #50 09:49:49 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Euphemia Li:
I only think she is forced to face all these stuff.
[Message #51 09:52:17 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Bette McDonnell:
Thanks too Euphemia for your comments. Sorry, no more time . . .Karen's calling!
[Message #52 09:52:17 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Tiffany Lee:
Thanks youguys
[Message #53 09:52:30 PM, Wednesday, February 02, 2000]
Tiffany Lee:
Good job!Drive safely tonight.
[Message #1 03:33:47 PM, Wednesday, February 09, 2000]
Karen Wong:
Plot: Many of you noted that the structure of the narrative is unusual, that Ng describes the events of the novel in reverse chronological order. Why do you think Ng wrote her novel in that way? What is the effect of that order on your response to the action?
[Message #2 09:19:21 PM, Wednesday, February 09, 2000]
Tiffany Lee:
It seems unclear to me what the motivation was behind writing her book in this order, but it did add a sense of drama to the situation. It builds up suspense to find out what happens to this family. The effect of that order upon my response, was that although I found the reading a little confusing, it seemed like it accomplished it's goal to try to draw out the mystery and really engage us in the family's issues. It made the conflicts more clear and easier to dissect especially that between Leila, Mah and Leon. It also made the issue of past vs. present much more evident in the character relationships.
I didn't really like the way that the story was put together because the subject matter was much too elaborate to be pieced together the way that it was. Also, a style of jumping from start to finish to middle to start again seems so trite because it creates confusion and perhaps even frustration for the reader. A lot of the issues were simply exhausted and trite because I became engrossed in the following several character's problems and conflicts it seemed so repetitious by the end of the story.
[Message #4 09:26:05 PM, Wednesday, February 09, 2000]
akiko vela:
It was confusing at sometimes, but I really liked it at the end. The ending made me feel warmer inside. At the end, the family was together physical and emotional. The way NG began her story was harsh--the present reality. There were nothing good going on in the family. There were many hardships in the family, suicide, abortion, screaming, hate, affair, fraud, bankrupt and etc......
But at the end it went back to where things/situation are much better--better relationships among family, respect for Leon, Mah's love for Leon and all that. Ng's intention of using such method of writing is to emphasize the emotional togetherness even after all that crises happened. The each family member might have gone in their own way separately, however, they still care about each other even though they are physically separated. It's just like the old days, because what matter is in your heart--that's what the author believes, so as Leon.
[Message #5 09:25:27 PM, Wednesday, February 09, 2000]
ruben arceo:
1) to make the story more interesting
2) to catch the attention of the reader
3) the reader will be asking a lot of whys??
4) as one gets deeper in search of the whys, the degree of intensity is also getting hotter
5) in our search for our four W's and one H, we would have the tendency of getting into the ins and outs of character, what they are really thinking, how are they compelled or motivated to do such things. In other words, what makes the character tick or have the dynamism to act on something.
6) As a consequence, a deeper understanding of the protagonists is registered; thereby an appreciation or even a vicarious empathy, disgust or whatnot are created in us. What I am trying to say here is that we might be able to learn something in their actions.
7) to recap, we can learn a lot in this novel!!
[Message #6 09:29:05 PM, Wednesday, February 09, 2000]
Tiffany Lee:
I didn't see it that way before, I see though that that is true, that at the beginning of the story, it seemed very separate and the end it was together. Not exactly the same, but as if they accepted each other. it just confused my on a more technical level rather than substance wise.
[Message #7 09:29:56 PM, Wednesday, February 09, 2000]
Tiffany Lee:
good job akiko
[Message #8 09:30:13 PM, Wednesday, February 09, 2000]
akiko vela:
Tiffany, did you enjoy this book? Although it was confusing--I really liked it. I went by really quick.
[Message #9 09:34:51 PM, Wednesday, February 09, 2000]
Tiffany Lee:
I did enjoy it however like I said, I really felt like it just got really trite towards the end. It just seemed so reptiitous not that I am insensitive to their toil. Is that insensitive as a reader to get exhausted of the "whining" of the characters?
[Message #12 09:35:13 PM, Wednesday, February 09, 2000]
akiko vela:
I just realized tonight that this book is a fiction. All this time, I thought it was her autobiography. Not......when I was reading the book, I kept referring to her photo on the back to try imagine what would be like to be Leila.
[Message #13 09:34:20 PM, Wednesday, February 09, 2000]
ruben arceo:
tiffany, I think your first message is right on the nose! Somehow your analysis has a semblance in mine.
[Message #14 12:35:16 PM, Thursday, February 10, 2000]
Karen Wong:
True, the story does seem repetitious in that it repeats main events, but it also provided us more insights into these very main events. We are swept back into the past along with the characters, yet notice that the characters end up "better off" than before. Leila, for one, comes to terms with the past, as she explains at the end, "[Backdaire] reminded me to look back, to remember" (194). That is exactly what we end up doing with the characters.
[Message #15 09:37:25 PM, Wednesday, February 09, 2000]
Tiffany Lee:
ruben how so?
[Message #17 09:38:21 PM, Wednesday, February 09, 2000]
rosyn park:
I feel that Ng describes the events of the novel in reverse chronological order because of a correlation that i believe there is concerning the symbol of bones. The term "bone" symbolizes both the past and present. Bones are remnants of the past, but the past is what helps to shape/form the future and what is actually occuring right now. It is a cycle that continually makes its rounds. what is the present soon becomes the past and what happened in the past allows for the present to be.
I think Ng wrote her novel in this way to show how what happens in the present is really a product of what has happened in the past. Things are the way they are because of what precedes before.
All this chaos, and all the problems focus on the past and the death of Ona. It's interesting because Ona's death is revived in the end of the book as though it was part of the climax.
[Message #18 09:37:18 PM, Wednesday, February 09, 2000]
akiko vela:
Sure.
[Message #19 09:38:33 PM, Wednesday, February 09, 2000]
akiko vela:
I don't think you are insensitive.
[Message #20 09:40:37 PM, Wednesday, February 09, 2000]
Tiffany Lee:
Yeah, we do end up taking a look back at these characters and her story but it's like, almost at a force, she forces us to keep looking back to make us understand what we are reading. I guess then, she really does accomplish her goal to help us understand the reading
[Message #21 09:39:58 PM, Wednesday, February 09, 2000]
akiko vela:
Sometimes...I like reading about someone else's crises. It makes me feel fortunate--it sounds mean, though.
[Message #22 09:39:57 PM, Wednesday, February 09, 2000]
ruben arceo:
rosyn, your statements are downright intriguing and startling. I believe you are on the right track!
[Message #23 09:41:55 PM, Wednesday, February 09, 2000]
akiko vela:
Good point, Rosyn!
[Message #24 09:43:30 PM, Wednesday, February 09, 2000]
Tiffany Lee:
Yes I felt that I could really relate to a lot of the readers. I mean readings. I really liked that the story was based in Frisco. I could relate a lot to the characters. Especially Leila. It raised a lot of issues that I myself have battled before.
[Message #27 09:46:01 PM, Wednesday, February 09, 2000]
Tiffany Lee:
Rosyn, I agree that everything that happened was a product of what happened in the past.
[Message #28 09:46:55 PM, Wednesday, February 09, 2000]
rosyn park:
Maybe Ng chose symbolically show that the happy ending to the story wasn't for everyone to get away from their problems by running away from it all but instead, focusing on the good and not the tragedy that arose through it all.
[Message #29 09:48:07 PM, Wednesday, February 09, 2000]
rosyn park:
Yeah, I can relate to the characters too. It's hard to try and get away and make something for yourself when you are so closely tied to family.
[Message #30 09:48:26 PM, Wednesday, February 09, 2000]
Tiffany Lee:
Also when you don't really know which way it the "right way" because of so many conflicting expectations and hopes and dreams of your family and yourself. it's like you have to find a medium in between otherwise, someone or everyone is unhappy.
[Message #32 09:48:25 PM, Wednesday, February 09, 2000]
akiko vela:
Leon and Leila are not blood related. However, this structure of writing going back and force shows us the connection between those two. How Leila felt about Leon back then and now--how it doesn't change. I think she loves him, although she gets frustrated at him sometimes. She respect him.
[Message #33 09:51:02 PM, Wednesday, February 09, 2000]
rosyn park:
I guess it is easy to get lost in all the conflicting ideas and opinions.
Of course this holds true when it comes to a generational gap.
[Message #34 09:51:13 PM, Wednesday, February 09, 2000]
Tiffany Lee:
To me seems like in a lot of Asian families, the blood relation is not a serious issue and the father is more prone to accept the daughter as his own and then not talk about it and have that technicality just forgotten about because it doesn't really matter you know?
TOP
[Message #1 03:34:03 PM, Wednesday, February 09, 2000]
Karen Wong:
Symbolism ("person, object, or event that suggests more than its literal meaning"): When is there a mentioning of bones? What do the bones symbolize? How does this symbol contribute to your understanding of this story?
[Message #2 09:18:44 PM, Wednesday, February 09, 2000]
Joyce G:
Throughout the book, the symbolism of bones pertains to many things. One obvious symbolism of bones is that of Grandpa Leong's "lost bones." The symbolism for this is obviously literal. After his death, and years come and go, his bones become lost and are moved around amongst other bones due to the limited grave space. However, the symbolism of his bones can also be interpreted in another manner. The emphasis of "lost bones" to me, can also be parallel to they way in which Mah and Leon's family lose themselves in their struggles regarding the past . They lose focus within themselves by dwelling in the past and moving ever so slowly into the present and future. It seems with all the situations that arise, hope is lost.
[Message #3 09:23:56 PM, Wednesday, February 09, 2000]
sergei marmysh:
First mentioning of bones reader can find on the first page of the story, "Here is another bone for gossipmongers.". I think the bones symbolize family value and past time, when Leon was supposed to sent bones of grandfa. Symbol of the bones presents through whole story and somehow connects all characters together and also helps for better understanding of the story.
[Message #4 09:24:53 PM, Wednesday, February 09, 2000]
Dandy Wong:
Is the symbolizme of the bones in fact really important? I do think they are because the "bad luck" the family has seems to be linked to Leon's failure to bury Grandpa Leong's bones in China. "Leon gave those bones power, believed they were bad luck that stirred Ona's destiny" (p.88). the bones are a prelude to the bad luck that Leon believes came upon the family because of the misplaced bones. this reasoning seems irrelevant to the present situation, but consider this, "the past gives power to the present" (p.89) believing that what ever you do can have itsconsquences in the future. She is saying because of the disrespect given to the bones, that it is inevitable. That the bones are a symbol of the failure to remember the past. Leon doesnt remember. That contrasts deeply to what he is culturally taught to cherish. to treat anscestors as the pride of the family, something Leon doesn't seem to do.
[Message #5 09:22:21 PM, Wednesday, February 09, 2000]
Susan Zavertnik:
There is the mention of bones when (pg 73) Leon enlists Mason to drive him to the cemetary. Mason, unaware of what Leon wants with being in a cemetary tries to help him find the name of Grandpa Leong on the head stones. Leila then goes to the Hoy Sun Ning Yung Benevolent Association to find out where the bones were.
Leon was supposed to have sent Grandpa Leong's bones back to China, to the home village, as a sign of respect for a proper burial.(pg 84) The "old folks" always thought that when their children were older, after making all the proper offerings, they would send the bones back.
Leon had to find these bones to do the proper thing, take them back. Also, Leon being a paper son, had to show that he was greatful for what Grandpa Leong had done for him.
I think the symbolism of the bones is unfinished business or unspoken business. There was a lot of unspoken things going on in the family about Ona's death and unresolved conflict among Leon and Mah. Leila had to understand the reason for all of these things in order to move on with her life and continue with her "mobility". In order to do so she had to help everyone else solve and understand the conflict they had going on with each other.
Before I didn't think there was too much going on with the "Bone" title. There were only a few mentionings about the "bones" and they didn't really apply all that much to the rest of the story.
[Message #6 09:26:41 PM, Wednesday, February 09, 2000]
Joyce G:
What's so special about a bone? Let's analyze this a bit. First of all, when u look at bone, what do u see? What do bones signify?
[Message #8 09:26:59 PM, Wednesday, February 09, 2000]
Nick Bundy:
Bones is mentioned when Leon stops by Mason's work and asks if he can take him to visit grandpa Leong's grave.
The bones symbolize Leon's disgrace or feeling of disgrace for not returning grandpa's bones to his home country after a few years. The logic was that after a few years the family would have enough respect to save some money and return the dead to their homeland for a proper burial.
This symbol contributes alot to my understanding of the story
because almost all the characters have something to feel ashamed about. Whether it's Nina for leaving the family for New York, Leila juggling her relationships with Mah, Leon, and Mason to the point that she 's making little progress with all three of them. Or Ona for committing suicide, or Mason for wanting Leila all to himself. I think the bones signify all the hurt and mistrust of this family.
[Message #9 09:29:34 PM, Wednesday, February 09, 2000]
Joyce G:
I agree with you Susan, I didn't think much of the title. Although it was mentioned through some chapters, I didn't think much of the significance of bones.
[Message #10 09:30:49 PM, Wednesday, February 09, 2000]
Dandy Wong:
yeah susan i dont think it has much to do with it also
[Message #11 09:28:45 PM, Wednesday, February 09, 2000]
Susan Zavertnik:
bones hold us together. They keep us upright and sturdy. When we have a broken bone it hampers our ability to move properly. Just as with a family. If there is a broken bone or a conflict, you have to let the "bone " heal properly in order to go about your life.
[Message #12 09:31:43 PM, Wednesday, February 09, 2000]
Nick Bundy:
I think the title should have been written upside down to give the reader a hint about how the book was written. You know, 'Pulp Fiction' style.
[Message #13 09:29:58 PM, Wednesday, February 09, 2000]
Susan Zavertnik:
good idea nick
[Message #14 09:34:54 PM, Wednesday, February 09, 2000]
Joyce G:
good point susan....haven't thought of it in that sense.....
[Message #15 09:35:52 PM, Wednesday, February 09, 2000]
Dandy Wong:
the bones theory that susan brings up is very insightful...
[Message #16 09:32:55 PM, Wednesday, February 09, 2000]
Susan Zavertnik:
i'm glad you asked the question joyce. i never really thought about it until you asked it. are we over analyzing this?
[Message #19 09:36:46 PM, Wednesday, February 09, 2000]
Dandy Wong:
yeah, i think i can see the correlation btw what leila is trying to do with her family because it was once a happy and functioning family
[Message #20 09:36:36 PM, Wednesday, February 09, 2000]
Joyce G:
no...it's better to overanalyze than not analyze at all...
[Message #21 09:36:51 PM, Wednesday, February 09, 2000]
Nick Bundy:
Maybe that could be an idea for a visual project. Bring in a diagram of the
human skeleton?
[Message #22 09:34:38 PM, Wednesday, February 09, 2000]
Susan Zavertnik:
Ona was the broken bone. Leila helped to mend the bone
[Message #23 09:37:44 PM, Wednesday, February 09, 2000]
Dandy Wong:
and now it isnt, so leila is trying to reconcile the disputes among the family members by being a mediator
[Message #26 09:40:07 PM, Wednesday, February 09, 2000]
Joyce G:
so guys...how does it help us to understand the story more?
[Message #27 09:38:09 PM, Wednesday, February 09, 2000]
Susan Zavertnik:
I don't think the bones made a difference in the story
[Message #29 09:38:58 PM, Wednesday, February 09, 2000]
Susan Zavertnik:
I kind of read through the bones. I understood the importance of them but it didn't come to play in my mind after that.
[Message #30 09:42:00 PM, Wednesday, February 09, 2000]
Dandy Wong:
think about it, leila is the mediator. leon is on part of the bone that is fractured. so is mah. and ona is the main
[Message #31 12:40:01 PM, Thursday, February 10, 2000]
Karen Wong:
Bones is also mentioned when Mah makes a feast for the young girls of the squab. Remember that Mah gives them the plumpest parts of the squab, and then she goes to the kitchen to suck on the bones. She tells them, "Bones are sweeter than you know" (31). Of course for us to get something beyond the literal meaning, bones in this case aren't associated with the leftover dead, but rather the best part. Does Mah mean to imply that the past is the sweetest?
[Message #32 09:39:34 PM, Wednesday, February 09, 2000]
Susan Zavertnik:
I know Leon found the bones but what did they do with them. They never explained after Leila found where they were
[Message #35 09:41:44 PM, Wednesday, February 09, 2000]
Susan Zavertnik:
The past is something that people cherish. That's where your memories are, good and bad. a lot of people like to live in the past, some older people prefer the past over the present
[Message #36 09:45:28 PM, Wednesday, February 09, 2000]
Dandy Wong:
so...Ona is the main part of the bone that is cracked in two. and the only way to heal it is to work from the outside to the core of the problem
[Message #37 12:43:11 PM, Thursday, February 10, 2000]
Karen Wong:
What do you make of this quote from Leila, "The oldtimers believe we have a heavenly weight, and that our gates can be divined by the weighing of our bones. But what was left to predict or foresee? Ona was dead" (153)?
[Message #39 09:46:42 PM, Wednesday, February 09, 2000]
Susan Zavertnik:
I think Leila thinks the old folks thought is all rubbish now that Ona is dead. It is as though you can make everything sound nice and "heavenly" when all things are good and well but when something like that happens it's all crap. Leila is distraught over Ona's death so not much can comfort her or bring Ona back.
[Message #40 09:49:44 PM, Wednesday, February 09, 2000]
Dandy Wong:
it is the weighing of the love in our hearts...
[Message #42 09:50:41 PM, Wednesday, February 09, 2000]
Dandy Wong:
if these bones signify the past and since the past is treasured by us in the present...then how much you love the treasure of the past is weighed by that God
TOP
[Message #1 03:34:15 PM, Wednesday, February 09, 2000]
Karen Wong:
Dualities: Elicit how any one of these dualities manifests itself in the novel: Chinese vs. American, traditional vs. modern practices, acceptance vs. denial, secrets vs. speaking out, guilt vs. innocence, death vs. life, expressing oneself in Chinese vs. expressing oneself in English, or a duality of your choice. What are we to make of that duality?
[Message #2 09:21:32 PM, Wednesday, February 09, 2000]
Michael Mark:
traditional vs modern practices. on p . 22 lei tells her mother that mason and her got married in new york,she gets totally bent out of shape . She says"just like that.didit and did'nt tell.mother who raised you .years of work,years of worry.DID'NT! EVEN!TELL!" . there was no big ceremony ,no banquets, tea ceremony,etc. no way for her to show the parents friends of their good fortune. to me it means to basically say thanks for inviting me to your parties ;now let me return the favor. it's not like lei wanted to disrespect her or anything ,but people take things like that to heart. I believe the traditions are held very dear to mah. maybe it's the only thing she has left in her life?
another example would be of the situation of the laundry store ,how leon didn't even sign a contract with luc. as he found out a mans word is not all its cracked up to be . and that really got him. in the old country i guess as long as they had a verbal agreement everything was kosher. any body there?
[Message #3 09:23:31 PM, Wednesday, February 09, 2000]
Alla Marmysh:
Traditional vs modern : leila gets married without following the traditional wedding banquet and celebration. Expressing oneself in Chinese vs. expressing oneself in English : using Chinese to express emotions, and private things and using English on public. Death vs life: leon: life-work, and death-dream. Life is a dealing with hardships and death is escape.
[Message #4 09:25:13 PM, Wednesday, February 09, 2000]
Michael Mark:
very true & harsh ,but its life.
[Message #5 09:27:34 PM, Wednesday, February 09, 2000]
Sean Dizon:
Many dualities existed in the book Bone by Fae Ng. Many times during the novel it felt as though there were conflicts between being American or Chinese. Usually Asian families are more of a close knit family while in America the family structure is strong but not as close. It appeared in the novel as though Leila did not want to break up the close knit family ties and by the end realized that she should let go of the past and worry about her life and the future. There were times when they felt as though they were being to "Chinesy" and other times when they felt as though they were proud to be of Chinese decent. Also in the novel it seemed as though whenever there were confrontations between family members Chinese was the language primarily spoken. Guilt vs. Innocence was also another duality that occurred in the book. After Ona's death many were trying to find out why and who was to blame. Many reasons were factors in her decision to jump and not just one. Some reasons I think for her death was that she felt trapped and had no outlet or anybody to really confide in. Leon's disapproval of Osvaldo also contributed and that probably ate at her inside. Usually one would hope that the family would back her decision to see someone but it was quite the opposite. Even times when she was kicked out of the house over it.
[Message #6 09:25:33 PM, Wednesday, February 09, 2000]
Euphemia Li:
I think there are a lot of dualities in this story. For example, Chinese culture always emphasizes family and obligations. But the American culture is more concerning about independence and individualism. Actually Leila, Nina and Ona were all educated and grew up in the U.S. In some way they try to be more independence and want to have their own life. On the other hand, they cannot put down their obligations. For instance, Leila takes up the responsibility taking care of Mah and Leon, but on the other hand she feels so stressful and wants move out with Mason. There are a lot of contradiction issues here.
Traditionally, Chinese wants to keep the family business secretly. Unlike most of the Americans, they will invite some family therapy or relationship experts help them solving the family problems. Unfortunately, Ona's jumping make the whole family feel so embarrass especially Mah and Leon because they cannot cover their family scandal anymore. Moreover, their daughter commit suicide, parents more or less have to bare some responsibilities.
The author also mentioned that Nina spoke out she did the abortion before. And Leila tried to make her silence because their family cannot accept such issue.
[Message #7 09:29:01 PM, Wednesday, February 09, 2000]
Sean Dizon:
They tried to keep secrets because they did not know how Mah would react.
[Message #9 09:27:18 PM, Wednesday, February 09, 2000]
Michael Mark:
yeah i getit!
[Message #10 12:27:44 PM, Thursday, February 10, 2000]
Karen Wong:
Alla, illustrate one of the dualities you mentioned with examples from the book. You may want to build on the same one as Michael. When do they rely on traditions? When do they not? What do their choices reveal?
[Message #11 09:29:07 PM, Wednesday, February 09, 2000]
Michael Mark:
yeah you are really supposed to keep stuff like abortion ,abuse ,adultery in the family circle. never let outsiders know your business.
[Message #12 09:28:58 PM, Wednesday, February 09, 2000]
Euphemia Li:
I think Mah is a very tradition lady, she doesn't know how to react when she face such family tragedy
[Message #13 09:30:14 PM, Wednesday, February 09, 2000]
Michael Mark:
i kind of agree.
[Message #14 09:30:38 PM, Wednesday, February 09, 2000]
Monique Dubief:
Communication and non-communication (or, more exactly various ways of communicating: Language experienced by Leila is often a "translation" exercise (To Mah, To Leon, to her parents' students . (Page 14) "The police said she was on downers. But I didn't translate that for Mah or tell her everything else I heard, because by then I was all worn-out from dealing with death in two languages." A "translation", by definition, is not an exact reproduction of reality; here, not only is it a translation but it is a distilled, filtered, truncated information.
Later on page 15: "Ona has become a kind of silence in our lives." Here, silence is a knot. Ms. Ng describes many other kinds of silences and they are not all as weighty as this one.
One of the best ways the characters communicate in this book is with or via food. (Food being handled to one other, as a gesture of friendship which also relieves tension . Page 15. "Leon peeled a tangerine and handed me a slice."
Page 21., after Leila tells Mah she got married in New York. "No answer." (...) "Mah? I said. "Say something." And further (Page 22) "Mah grunted, a humph sound that came out like a curse. My translation was: Disgust, anger."
I am sorry, this is just the beginning! No time to think! I think I will just grunt like Mah!....
[Message #15 12:29:37 PM, Thursday, February 10, 2000]
Karen Wong:
Language is a very interesting theme to explore. Not only are their particular times when the characters choose to speak in Chinese, but also they are attuned to how they express themselves. For instance, Leila is horrified when Leon and his buddies yell out to each other (13).
[Message #16 09:32:12 PM, Wednesday, February 09, 2000]
Michael Mark:
mah always seems a bit confused when it comes to death
[Message #17 09:31:46 PM, Wednesday, February 09, 2000]
Euphemia Li:
Don't you guys think Leila try to be more "Americanize," having a wedding without telling her parents. Living with Mason before Marriage. But on the other hand, she feels Dale is too "White Wash," she claims that he speaks English too perfect. Do you think she is jealous or she doesn't know how to deal the culture difficulties
[Message #18 09:35:07 PM, Wednesday, February 09, 2000]
Sean Dizon:
I think she is caught between two cultures. She wants to assimilate yet she does not want to lose her Chinese heritage. She tries to keep the family together
[Message #21 09:34:13 PM, Wednesday, February 09, 2000]
Michael Mark:
i believe she is kind of confused when it comes to identity of asians. culture clash seems to be very prevelant in the story.young & old
[Message #23 09:36:04 PM, Wednesday, February 09, 2000]
Euphemia Li:
Yes, that's true. According to her job, she also has to deal with the two generations.
[Message #24 09:37:05 PM, Wednesday, February 09, 2000]
Michael Mark:
what do you guys feel is too "chinessey"? in this story gambling and wedding rituals seem to be it.
[Message #25 09:41:00 PM, Wednesday, February 09, 2000]
Sean Dizon:
I think they used that phrase when they had Chinese food
[Message #26 09:38:28 PM, Wednesday, February 09, 2000]
Euphemia Li:
Honestly gambling is one of the Chinese tradition. In this story Leila mentioned that she loves Mason because he is not so chinessey, and he hates gambling.
[Message #27 09:39:24 PM, Wednesday, February 09, 2000]
Michael Mark:
Euphemia you are right especially when it comes to lei's job. there was a quoote about hitting a child if they don't learn or they mis behave.the parents do not get it .
[Message #28 09:41:47 PM, Wednesday, February 09, 2000]
Sean Dizon:
He is the opposite of what Chinese man would do
[Message #29 09:40:46 PM, Wednesday, February 09, 2000]
Michael Mark:
mason also seems to practice some "chinessey" rituals ;SMOKING!!!!!!!!! PRETTY DAMN TYPICAL OF PEOPLE I KNOW.
[Message #30 09:43:43 PM, Wednesday, February 09, 2000]
Sean Dizon:
He has some qualities that are and that aren't. Everybody smokes
[Message #31 09:41:03 PM, Wednesday, February 09, 2000]
Euphemia Li:
That's why I am considering Leila really doesn't know how to deal with two cultures. I think if she can put down some of the her bias about chinese culture, she will be happier
[Message #32 09:41:54 PM, Wednesday, February 09, 2000]
Michael Mark:
i guess? she really needs to intertwine the two cultures to define herself.
[Message #34 09:45:45 PM, Wednesday, February 09, 2000]
Sean Dizon:
I think she is trying to be somewhat connected with both cultures
[Message #35 09:44:22 PM, Wednesday, February 09, 2000]
Michael Mark:
as for english vs chinese lei seems to leave herself defenseless against ma when she uses chinese to communicate an idea across.
[Message #36 09:45:37 PM, Wednesday, February 09, 2000]
Monique Dubief:
Answer to Euphemia: True, she is a traditional lady,who, nonetheless has had 3 very different men in her life (for this traditional French woman, that is a start!), among which a somewhat illicit love affair with the flamboyant Tommie. Also, she has a certain understanding for her daughters love affairs . She would like to have some complicity with her daughters, in a way. Remember when she asked from Ona as an only rule to put some big flower pot in front of them when she will be sitting on Osvaldo's lap at the store? Also, she is extremely fond of Mason . (Page 191) "You shouldn't sleep with him so much." This actually means the exact contrary to me. It means, keep having a nice time, keep loving him but make sure he remains the nice guy he is and remains attached to you; so sleep with him a lot but make sure to keep him, make sure he will not become another Lyman Fu who will grow bored of your excessive love.
Mah might be traditional but she is totally enslaved by those traditions.
As an example page 183), she shows a certain amount of pragmatism when she finally allows Mason to sleep at her house with Leila :"In the beginning, Mah didn'tlike Mason's staying over, so I made him leave in the middle of the night.(...) The car made such a racket starting up that Mah finalky gave in. She daid, "Better for the neighbors to see the car in the morning and wonder than for them to look out the window in the middle of the night and know."
[Message #37 09:45:15 PM, Wednesday, February 09, 2000]
Euphemia Li:
Throughout this book, Ng have mentioned so many times that what kind of language she is using to communicate with others.
[Message #38 09:46:48 PM, Wednesday, February 09, 2000]
Euphemia Li:
Mah is an very interesting character, she doesn't want her neighbors know that Mason has stayed a night at their house. On the other hand she has an affair with Tommie.
[Message #39 12:46:35 PM, Thursday, February 10, 2000]
Karen Wong:
I was just rereading when Leila confesses to her mother about her marriage. She starts off in Chinese that she wants to tell her mother something, and then when she actually does the telling, she speaks in English. It seems as if there may be a correlation between practicing Chinese traditions and therefore speaking in Chinese, and the same holds for English and American habits.
[Message #40 09:50:13 PM, Wednesday, February 09, 2000]
Michael Mark:
or maybe lei just is better at english
[Message #41 09:50:29 PM, Wednesday, February 09, 2000]
Euphemia Li:
Actually I guess she doesn't want to speak Chinese at all. She only wants to relax the atmosphere, or to impress her. And then she speak in English to emphasis her own point of view again