oates

English 110 Interchange Discussion:
Joyce Carol Oates' "Where Are You Going, Where Have You Been?"

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Prompt: Conduct a character analysis of either Connie or Arnold Friend. Which of their characteristics stand out, whether physical or personal, such as values and interests? What are the sources of these values and interests? What relationships do they have with others? How might these qualities lend insight to why Connie ends up leaving with Arnold Friend, or why Arnold Friend is able to convince her to go with him? Either way, include in your response a passage from the story that lends insight or support to your interpretation according to proper MLA format.

10: 10 Class

11:10 Class

Canapes

Parasols

Crumpets

Sand

Lace

Starfish

Tea

Thongs

10:10 Canapes

[Message #2 10:48:45 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Joseluis Maldonado:

Connie is a person that feels that she can do anything she wants. For example, she is a person that has a great body and knows how to use it. Whereas she is become a young women that want to try new things. In which her family see as something normal because her old she is doing it. Yet she is feel trap in her sister life. For the reason that Connie is not able to do what ever she want because her family feel what she is doing is not right, saying that June did this and " she save money and helped clean the house and cooked and Connie couldn't do a thing(p.734). Give Connie the feeling that she was no use to the family and that she did not meet the standers her family had for her. Leaving her with the example that she had to be like her sister in order to be able to meet the standers of her family. Yet when Arnold Friend came along every thing change. He gave her freedom that she was not able to find in her house and feels that this a way to live the life she want with out getting in trouble.

[Message #3 10:44:45 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

jeff mix:

Connie's main mental characteristic was her self-esteem. It seemed very low thanks to her mother constantly barraging her with insults. She also seemed trapped. She wanted to experience her youth outside of her house, but when she did, she found trouble. She experienced teenage boys. Her values consisted of any stereotypical semi-wholesome teenage girl from the Fifties. She rejected Arnold Friend until the bitter end, until he broke her will. Connie managed to get along well with her friends, but not with her sisters. She would go to the movies with her friends and they would hang out and other typical things. She also seemed to be in competition with her sister, at least from her mother's point of view. Her mother played favorites and her father ignored her, similar to any dysfunctional family. Her mother would say "You think you are so pretty…why cant you keep your room clean like you sisters?" (734).

The lack of family unity helps spur Connie to leave with Arnold Friend. Arnold friend seemed to be a pervert, or a savior. I say savior because it is unclear that he will take her away and abuse her, just maybe he is a figment of her imagination, freeing her from her home. He is able to convince Connie to leave with him by using mind games. He got to her while her parents were away, a very vulnerable time. He then spat out mind numbing banter that broke her already weak will. He mentally forced himself upon her. He also just might be a pervert ready to do his business with Connie.

[Message #4 10:50:05 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Amy Strazzarino:

Arnold Friend had many characteristics that stood out. The main one was the way he spoke to young Connie. He said that he valued her being young and not wanting to leave the house, but he still tried to convince her to go out with him and his friend. He wanted take her out and nothing seemed like it was going to stop him from getting what he wanted. Even though she said she did not want to go with him due to the fact that she had only seen him once while driving, he still insisted that they go out. His relationship with his friend, Ellie, was unusual. He called Ellie numerous rude names and told him that this was not his date, so he should just be quiet. "Arnold friend said, "I toldja to shut up Ellie", "you're deaf, get a hearing aid, right? Fix yourself up. This little girl's no trouble and's gonna be nice to me, so Ellie keep to yourself, this ain't your date - right?"" (744). When the friend was not paying attention, Arnold told Connie that his friend did not matter to him and that Ellie could just sit in the back of the car. Friends should never talk behind each other's back and Arnold does this a bunch while trying to convince Connie to go with him. Arnold seems to be a very persuasive type of guy. He was able to convince Connie to go with him after talking to her for so long and her not knowing whom he really is. His friend just seems to take what ever Arnold throws his way and goes on with their friendship.

[Message #5 10:50:31 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Maw Aung:

Connie is a fifteen years old teenager girl, and she wants to live free. She does not like and want to listen her mother because she thinks that her mother tries to control her and never talks about nice things about her. For teenagers, everything around their environment is full with fun and excitement. They also want to explore the new things for them like as: love and beauty. They do not care about chores and want to take any responsibilities for their house, parents and even themselves. Most of the time they hang out with their friends. Connie is that kind of teenager girl. She thinks she is so pretty. She likes to make other people to interest in her. The author, Oates even states, "Connie wo8uld raise her eyebrows at these familiar complaints and look right through her mother, into a shadowy vision of herself as she was right at that moment: she knew she was pretty and that was everything" (Oates 734). She always thinks and daydreams about the boys whom she meets. When Connie stays in her house, she tires to stay quiet and good because of her mother, but when she goes out she changes her styles and everything. Oates says, "Everything about her had two sides to it, one for home and one for anywhere that was hot home:…" (735). She seems like she wants to be more like adults.

[Message #6 10:49:27 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Bryan You:

Connie is a very beautiful girl that always likes to look at herself in the mirror. She seems vain and self-centered. She is skinny, has long hair, and is a fifteen year old brat. She only cares about herself and she makes fun of others to amuse and entertain herself. She does this to feel better about herself. She seems naieve and only sees the world through her narrow perspective. She values looks and attention. She is only interested in boys and the attention she gets from them. The sources of these values and interests come from her friends and family. Her friends are just like her, they just like to go to the mall or movies, and they are shallow and can't see anything except their own beauty. Her mother dissapproves of Connie's behavior and seems to favor her sister June. Also, she has no real relationship with her father because all he does is work and then come home and eat, read the paper, then go to sleep. Her relationship with her father is almost non-existent and that makes her try to get attention elsewhere. The relationship with her mother is rocky at best, sometimes they get along but something always comes up to distance them from one another, "Connie's mother kept picking at her until Connie wished her mother was dead and she herself was dead and it was all over" (734). This lends insight to why Connie went with him and why he was able to convince her to go with him. Arnold Friend was giving her the attention she wanted from her father and mother. Therefore he was able to convince her to go with him.

[Message #7 10:55:41 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

meung saelaw:

Connie seems to act as a pretty pratical teenage girl. She's very interested in the way she looks and how others see her physically. The unfortunate thing is she seems to be more concerned about physical appearances than internal appearances. In a way, that was how Arnold Friend convinced Connie to go along with him. He would give her comments to how she looks. He would say things to make Connie feel good about herself, but at the same time he's just saying it to keep her with him. He seems like a rude guy. Like when he said, " Your mother's helping some fat woman with the corn... She's too fat. O don't like them fat. I like them the way you are, honey" (oates 742). He says mean things about woman who don't look a certain way, and blindly as Connie is, she doesn't see him as a pig. I think Arnold friend talks like a pig, like most guys would just for attention. And Connie probably sees him as this macho guy who speaks up. He keeps saying he's real and he tells the truth, but actually he's just lying his way through to get what he wants. As Connie was growing up, her mom would always ask, why couldn't she be more like her sister. Connie was more into being with a crowd, she was scared to be by herself. She craved the attention, and that's what Arnold Friend gave her, so she fell into his trap. Arnold Friend was smooth with his tongue in talking to Connie, so Connie fell for it. Connie is still young and doesn't know much, she's still so innocent, but she thinks she knows it all. She doesn't know that Arnold Friend is trying to take advantage of her, instead she eventually falls into believing what he says. I think this is a very confused girl, who doesn't know that bad things can happen to her even if they don't seem that bad. Connie is still very blind to the world, but doesn't realizes it yet. Arnold talks bad about others around her, to get her to go along with him. What he's doing is manipulating her to isolate her from everyone that she knows. By doing that, she begins to feel that no one really cares for her, and that he is the only one there for her or understands her. She's too innocent, and she falls for the sweet things he says to her. She thinks he will never leave her, because he compliments her so much, but actually he's just taking advantage of her.

[Message #8 10:55:56 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Karen Wong:

In many ways, Connie seems the exact opposite of her family. While she is beautiful, her mother's beauty has waned with age. While she pursues boys and is immersed in her dreams, her sister June pragmatically attends to her responsibilities at work and at home. And as a result, Connie feels constantly berated by her mother, who says to anyone who is willing to listen, "June did this, June did that, she saved money and helped clean the house and cooked and Connie couldn't do a thing, her mind was all filled with trashy daydreams"(734). Of course this observation is coming from Connie, as evidenced from the sarcastic tone. What is interesting to note is that Connie "didn't" do a thing, but rather she "couldn't," as if she is so caught up in her daydreams that she's unable to attend to everyday matters. I can't help but wonder if Connie's egocentrism is not simply due to her simply being a teenager, but rather that she is forced to reside in her dreams since her family itself seems so disconnected. Her father, for instance, is more a non-presence than a presence. Feeling as if she is not a part of her family and that she'd hardly be missed, she may have felt the need to sacrifice herself for her family's well being. This feeling of alienation is revealed when she stumbles, very disoriented, in the kitchen, as she is trying to escape, and yet everything seems unfamiliar.

[Message #9 10:51:51 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

jeff mix:

yeah, Connie is weak willed and self centered

[Message #11 10:56:53 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Amy Strazzarino:

Why did all of you choose Connie over Arnold?

[Message #12 10:56:35 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Joseluis Maldonado:

she is a person that wants to explore life

[Message #13 10:52:36 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

jeff mix:

well, she was easier to assess

[Message #14 10:52:54 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

jeff mix:

we don't know much about Arnold except he persuasive

[Message #15 10:57:08 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Joseluis Maldonado:

that is right

[Message #16 10:53:08 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

jeff mix:

and that he knows a lot about connie

[Message #19 10:59:02 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

meung saelaw:

Yeah, I thought Connie was weak minded.

[Message #20 10:54:25 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

jeff mix:

what does Arnold name signify, being his last name was friend?

[Message #22 10:59:46 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

meung saelaw:

Actually, she was not exactly weak minded, but she didn't do what she thought was right, instead what she just wanted to do.

[Message #23 10:59:01 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Joseluis Maldonado:

a boy that is strong

[Message #24 10:59:44 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Amy Strazzarino:

Jeff, I pictured him as a pervert coming out of the blue and trying to talk her out somewhere that we the audience don't know where and she doesn't feel comfortable, but he still tries to convince her. He knew all this stuff about her and it creeped her out.

[Message #26 10:55:58 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

jeff mix:

yeah, he was pretty creepy

[Message #27 11:00:03 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Joseluis Maldonado:

he was just trying to be nice

[Message #28 11:01:07 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

meung saelaw:

yeah, she should have known he was like a psycho. I think she was too innocent.

[Message #30 11:00:34 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Joseluis Maldonado:

that is right

[Message #31 10:56:33 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

jeff mix:

well, he was being nice, in that I want to have sex with a 12 year old girl sense

[Message #32 10:58:20 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Bryan You:

she is naive plain and simple. if someone came to your house that you didn't know would you go for a "ride" with them?

[Message #33 11:01:47 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

meung saelaw:

He was only being nice to get what he wanted

[Message #35 11:02:17 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

meung saelaw:

She should have been smarter about it. He complimented her a lot, but she should not have fallen into that trick

[Message #37 10:57:42 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

jeff mix:

I don't understand what the song had to do with the story

[Message #38 10:59:30 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Bryan You:

i think she just craved the attention she was getting from him

[Message #39 10:57:58 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

jeff mix:

except he called her blue eyes

[Message #40 11:02:35 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Amy Strazzarino:

Jose, if a girl that was a lot older than you came out of no where and started telling you things that creeped you out, wouldn't you get a little scared?

[Message #41 10:58:09 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

jeff mix:

yeah, she craved tons of attention. her father gave her no attention. classic case

[Message #44 11:04:04 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Karen Wong:

Interesting point, Jose Luis, in #2. You suggest that Arnold Friend offers her freedom, and in many ways, rebels like him are free because they don't play by the rules. Supposedly girls like "bad" boys because the danger they represent is alluring-- consider our discussion on Monday about James Dean and Elvis as being cultural icons back then..

[Message #45 11:03:38 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Maw Aung:

Was Connie dreaming about Arnold or in real?

[Message #46 10:59:23 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

jeff mix:

if a man wanted me to come with him in ways like never before i would probably run away or hurt him, but I am not an easily persuaded 13 year old girl

[Message #47 11:03:53 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Joseluis Maldonado:

amy that would not make me be scared

[Message #48 10:59:53 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

jeff mix:

I thought for most of it that it was a dream. but for most of it I can see how an older man can play a trick on a young girl

[Message #50 11:05:32 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

meung saelaw:

I think Connie fell for his macho side, and also because she cared for her looks so much and her family didn't care, but arnold cared.

[Message #51 11:00:44 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

jeff mix:

i have seen men playing mind games with little girls

[Message #53 11:05:59 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

meung saelaw:

yes, that's why girls are smarter now.

[Message #54 11:05:09 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Joseluis Maldonado:

and they do get want they want

[Message #55 11:05:44 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Amy Strazzarino:

a random lady 25 yrs older than you started telling you things that you didn't think someone like that should know?

[Message #56 11:01:38 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

jeff mix:

yeah, this was before all of that don't take candy from strangers campaign

[Message #57 11:06:08 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Maw Aung:

Arnold act like a crazy man.

[Message #59 11:02:04 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

jeff mix:

most people knew each other and were trusting

[Message #61 11:07:09 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

meung saelaw:

unfortunately we have men who can't get woman their own age, because they are not qualified, so they go for the younger ones who don't know any better yet.

[Message #62 11:02:37 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

jeff mix:

yeah, sad really

TOP

10:10 Crumpets

[Message #2 10:45:07 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Esther Lee:

Connie is a fifteen years old girl and she always looks into the mirrors. She concerns about her outlook. She hates her family include her sister June. She even wish her mother was dead and herself is dead too. She thinks that will be all over. It sounds like she doesn't like the way she is living. She always wants to escape from her family. She is a self-centered, and she always want to be alone except when June goes out with girl friends. At that time, she will also go out with them. They go shopping or to a movie. Also Connie interests with the boys. She meets boy when she goes out. She pretends that she ignore the boy. She doesn't want the boy knows what she is thinking. Therefore, the reason why Connie leaves with Arnold Friend is because she doesn't want to be with her family anymore and she likes to be with boy. Just as the Oates writes, "But around his bent head Connie's mother kept picking at her until Connie wished her mother was dead and she herself was dead and it was all over." (Oates 734)

[Message #3 10:46:41 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Lucienne Kilgore:

Connie was a normal typical small town girl that lived her life free of worries. She behaved according to the girls her age, I mean, she was a lot into looks, music, boys, and her friends, the narrator says "listened to music that made everything so good"(735). Her parents didn't pay much attention to her because they didn't think that there was much to worry about; when they went to the picnic and left her alone at home they never imagined that something horrible could ever happen. Because she was pretty, she attracted Arnold's attention but in the wrong way, ". In her innocence, she thought the he was just another kid fooling around to pass time "she could see then that he wasn't a kid" (740); little did she know his real intentions.

She had never paid attention to him before because he wasn't her type, but he was definitely watching her very close. He knew all the names of her friends, her family and their whereabouts, and that she was all alone in the Sunday afternoon. Apparently, he had done it before and knew exactly how to persuade her in coming with him instead of doing of he wanted to do with her in the house, "the incantation was kindly" (746). That was something that her parents didn't prepare her for since they live in a small town. Nobody could never believe that something that horrible could ever happened; that their little town where everybody knew everybody wasn't a safe place that they thought it was.

She went with him out or pure fear. In her fear, her brain stopped function and she didn't anything else other than to follow his orders.

[Message #4 10:55:59 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Marc Johnson:

I believe that Connie has a rebellious nature inside of her. She will basically do the opposite of whatever her mom says and the opposite of whatever her sister may do. "Why don't you keep your room clean like your sister?...You don't see your sister using that junk." (pg. 734) Of course, I believe the reason for this is that her mom may be jealous of Connie or she may not want Connie to end up like her. Connie is physically good-looking and one of the "cool" people. The reason that her mom picks on her and seems to favor her sister June over Connie is that perhaps their mom is jealous of the beauty she once had. Connie is pretty clueless though because she doesn't recognize the danger that comes up to her driveway. Not to mention that she doesn't go and shut the real door nor does she then call the police. In my opinion, she's Intrigued by the two men because I don't think that she's ever had so much, at first, positive attention. I think that Connie ends up leaving with Arnold Friend because she must have thought that there's nothing she could do to get away from him and that she didn't want to endanger her family. Besies, she probably thought that in a way Arnold was right. he was right about Connie's dad's home being like a cardboard box. "This place you are now-inside your daddy's house-is nothing but a cardboard box I can knock down any time. you know that and always did know it." (pg. 745) In a way, Arnold Friend represents Connie's mother. Arnold is forceful like her mother and that could be a reason for why she goes towards him. Of course, unlike her mother, Arnold Friend is dangerous.

[Message #5 10:49:43 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

carlos sandoval:

Connie is average teenage girl growing up in the suburbs.She like the what every other kid in america wanted.Boys,clothes and a fun time.She was not a evil girl she just wanted to have fun and get attention from boys.She know that is pretty and it stands out. She likes that people notice her but not to point of her being vain.The values she has are hard to pinpoint for there doesnt seem she is getting any from her family.Her and the mother dont seem to have a good reathionship and father does not say much.The sister is too much in age difference and personalitiy to have a influence on connie.right now the only influence on her is what is going on around her.Friends,Eddie,the mall and the drive- in restaurant are the things that giving influence.

[Message #6 10:55:51 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Karen Wong:

[Message #7 10:53:50 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Monica Suarez:

Connie, a typical teenager, described by Joyce Carol Oates in "Where Are You, Where Have You Been? " Connie feels that she is better than her mother, sister and the rest of her family. She knows she is pretty and flaunts it. She uses her looks to her advantage, to the the attention she needs. Her mother seems to like her pain sister more because she at one point was beautiful, but with age she has lost her beauty and despises Connie because she is young and beautiful. Connie feels the hatred that her mother has towards her and feels unsecure about it. This is why she acts the way she does, not wanting to spend time with her family. She would rather hang out with her friends at the mall, or talking to other guys that remind her how pretty she ist. The only thing she is really sure about.

She looks for the approval of others in her looks. She constantly looks in the mirror to make sure that she is presentable. She also looks to others expressions upon seeing her to make sure she looks good. A strange look wouldl mean that something is wrong with her appearance and she would immediately need to repair it. A look of admiration would mean that she looks great and she could continue on her way. She has prbably been made to feel inadequate by her mother and her values have turned to superficial physical appearances rather than the emotionally appropriate feeling a girl of her age should have.

Arnold Friend was able to convince Connie, because he appealed to her the way she needed. He praised her on her good looks consistently. "You're cute"(738), Arnold reminded her. He appealed to her in many ways, he was physicaly a good looking boy and she like that. He was listening to the same time of music she way. "Bobby King", ... "he's kind of great. he knows where the action is"(738). She wanted to be where the action is.

[Message #10 10:58:48 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Ana Salazar:

Which of their characteristics stand out, whether physical or personal, such as values and interest?

Connie was a pretty girl who makes her to fell secured to her way to act, but her mother was over her all the time because she does not want Connie to beleve that or fell better than her sister julie. The way the Connie dress was with with tide clothes and accord with the popular stylish at the time as others boys and girls. Physically Connie was a pretty girl who any boy can which to have as girlfriend. Connie was a kind of girl who will stand out for her interests and values because she always went against her mother every time she wants Connie to do something for her. in the following statement her mother said, "If June's name was mentioned her mother's tone was approving, and if Connie's name was mentioned it was approving" (Oates 736).

[Message #11 11:07:07 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Karen Wong:

Wow, I'm reading the quote that Esther is cited in her response #2, and I can see a connection with Jeff's assessment that Connie suffers from very low self esteem. She's not only resentful of her mother, but she wishes herself dead as well. That death wish comes in the form of Arnold Friend.

[Message #12 11:07:20 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Ana Salazar:

For Lee: I think she does not hate her mother, I think the reason she

was against her mother it is because she always checking on her. There is reasonable that Connie felt sometimes that she wants her mother dead because at the age boy and girls want their freedom from their parents and became independent. Actually, Connie did not hate anyone in her family she just want them to live her life as a normal teenager in her age.

TOP

10:10 Lace

Interchange Conference Transcript

[Message #2 10:44:49 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Aubrei McGinn:

The plight of 15-year-old girls is not few and far between. Connie is no exception. She is at an age where she is too young to go out into the world on her own, but is itching to leave the confinements of her family. Connie is more interested in the latest rock and roll music, clothing, what her friends think of the older kids than her mother and sister's well being. Connie, being a teenager girl, is preoccupied with her looks. It says in the story that "she had a quick nervous giggling habit of craning her neck to glance in the mirror, or check other people's faces to make sure her own was all right" (Oates 734). Her attention was more focused on catching other people's imperfections than school or family values. This showing the important things that was important to girls in the 1950's.

At the end of the story Connie ends up leaving her house with the enigma of Arnold Friend, although she knows that he may be dangerous. The question that is posed is why would she do this at all? Arnold may sub-consciously represent a way out of her current situation, which she finds un-appealing. He is older, cooler and mysterious. Arnold also promises to take her away and he claims that he will not hurt her. Even though Connie did put up quite a struggle about leaving the house she conclusively left with him. This reveals about Connie's character a strong sense of well being, but not a strong sense of self-confidence. Her insecurities about being accepted and about her family life lead to her leaving the comforts of her home and safety. Connie's character is strong in a sense, but weak in that she was ultimately influenced to leave with a risky person such as Arnold Friend.

[Message #3 10:49:16 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

jimmy luu:

Connie is the very insecure and is easily intimitaded. She constantly checks peoples expressions to make sure they are appoving of her looks and actions. she does decide to follow Aronold Friend and Ellie Oscar in their car, because she got intimidated into joining them. She offered a little resisttance at first, but later bent to the pressure that Arnold put onher. Many times she had threatened to call the police, but she didn't because she wasn't strong enough in her beliefs to call. Deep down, she thought that Arnold was playing a big joke on her, it wasn't later that she really became scared. Connie is also very naive about this world, she never thought anybody was capable of this evil. Till this point her life was spending time at the hamburger joint, talking about boys or listening to Bobby kIng records. She is also very gullible. When Arnold told her that her daddy isn't going to come back, or that her mom was dear, she totally believed him. In all I think Connie is a good girl, that just wasn't ready to deal with these type of high pressure situations. In general I don't think alot of girls of that era would. Because back then , there wasn't as much violence and heinous crimes being committed toward children. People didn't expect it and didn't know how to deal with it .

[Message #4 10:50:40 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Aubrei McGinn:

I like your response to the question. I also think that Connie is very naive of the world. Even if it was set in the 50's murder and kidnapping still existed. It is just that no one thought it would happen to them.

[Message #5 10:49:34 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

MarieGrace Calinisan:

Almost at the end of the story, Connie's character seems to be reflected implicitly by Arnold Friend as he knows a lot of personal information concerning her and her family: "The place where you came from ain't there anymore, and where you had in mind to go is cancelled out. This place you are now--inside your daddy's house--is nothing but a cardboard box I can knock down any time. You know that and always did know it. ..." (p.745). Arnold possibly uses this personal information about Connie's character, and deliberately aims at her personal weakness, which might be relative to her values, interests, and relationships with others and her family. As to her relationships with her family, Connie never feels important to them since she's often criticized physically by her mother. She always feels taken for granted; might this be the reason for her insecurity or possibly, her low self-esteem? or confidence?

[Message #6 10:55:46 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Karen Wong:

[Message #7 10:53:43 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Aubrei McGinn:

your very right Arnold did go right for her insecurities, I forgot about how he knew all her personal information

[Message #8 10:51:08 PM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

cheyenne satyna:

Connie is typical of a young teenage girl in the American society. She is in the transition from child to young adult and from this transition a sense of uncertainty arises. In her desire to be grown up she must assert herself against her parents, especially her mother. It seems that Connie and her mother may be very much alike and may have possibly been very close previously. This makes the separation greater. Her relationship with her father seems somewhat non-existent, "he didn't bother talking much to them" (734), which probably makes Connie crave the attention of males more. This idea along with the fact that Connie is very pretty makes her a prime candidate for the attentions of men with ulterior motives. Another factor to consider is that Connie and her friends are "familiar sights" (735) in a small town, which would make it easier for someone to find out anything they wanted to know about her. Her naiveness does not make her aware of the situations she is presenting herself in, such as leaving for three hours with a boy in an alley. Or when Arnold sees them leave and wags his finger at her saying "gonna get you, baby" (736). This would warn an older more aware teenager to be on the lookout for this guy.

Connie is at the age of imbalance and does not realize she has any power. This helplessness leaves her vulnerable to Arnold Friends pushing and threatening. I believe she leaves with him out of fear and helplessness., not out of a need to protect her family.

I also agree with Jimmy that people of that era did not believe or where unaware of such crimes existing.

[Message #9 10:55:40 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Aubrei McGinn:

The fact that her father was non existent in her life may be a reason that she left with Arnold. Like many people that do not have a strong male presence in their life go looking for one when they are in their teenage years. Even if that person is bad.

[Message #10 10:53:14 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Amy Pfaeffle:

Do you think that Connie left in the fear of harm coming towards her family?

[Message #11 10:57:48 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Aubrei McGinn:

I think she left because he disoriented her so much she didn't know what she was doing

[Message #12 11:00:31 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

jimmy luu:

aubrei, you gave a pretty deep insight into Connie's mind, that was very good. I totally forgot the role her family had in making her the way she was. I also never thought of the fact that being a teenager had to do with how she dealt with the situation. How most teenagers just want to leave the house and rebel against authorities and the norm of everyday life.

[Message #13 10:55:15 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Amy Pfaeffle:

i THINK SHE LEFT BECAUSE OF ALL THE THREATS ARNOLD MADE TOWARDS HER FAMILY AND FRIENDS. YOU REMEMBER HE SAID HE WAS GOING TO DEAL WITH THE FAMILY IF THEY GOT THEIR WHEN HE WAS THEIR.

[Message #14 10:57:18 PM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

cheyenne satyna:

Karen's response that Connie may have sacrificed herself for her family's well being due to the fact that she would hardly be missed hits a key of truth. How many teens run away from home and believe they will never be missed. But I still believe that this also goes back to the naiveness and imbalance that teens feel as they go through the incredibly painful transition to the realities of adulthood.

[Message #15 11:00:57 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Aubrei McGinn:

it didn't seem by the narrative that she deeply cared about what happened to her sister or mother. Also what would have stopped arnold from going after her family after he dealt with connie

[Message #16 10:59:34 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

MarieGrace Calinisan:

I guess, she left because Arnold promised her something that she never had in her teenage life with her family.

[Message #17 11:02:59 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Aubrei McGinn:

that's true he did say he cared for her and she wasn't shown much attention by her family

[Message #18 11:05:52 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

jimmy luu:

I think she left because she just lost it, so much adrenaline and emotions just flooded her brain and she just couldn't think properly. I think I would have left with him, If that was me, after going through so much in such a short period of time.

[Message #19 11:01:41 PM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

cheyenne satyna:

I believe Aubrei is right that Connie left with Arnold because he disoriented her so much and also because she was in so much fear. I don't believe the attention he showed her had much influence in the end.

[Message #20 11:02:06 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

MarieGrace Calinisan:

she probably had emotional or personal problems generated in her.

TOP

10:10 Tea

[Message #2 10:48:01 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Ricardo Salas:

In the story by Joyce Carol Oates, the author describes Connie as a young and fearful young lady. Connie is one who cares very deeply for her family and friends. She meets Arnold Friend, a crazy man. She sees him when she is driving in a car with another boy during the last days of school. They both make eye contact and stare at each other when they are driving by. Connie and Arnold seem to have an attraction while they drive by each other. But Arnold is an obsessed man with physiological problems, who preys on innocent girls.

Arnold some how tracks down Connie to her house and forces her leave with him. Arnold says, "Yes, I'm your lover"(742). Arnold did not even know Connie her self. But he knew everything about her family and her friends. Some how he stalked her and her family with her knowing about it. Arnold told Connie, " I took a special interest in you, such a pretty girl, and found out all about you like I know your parents and sister are gone somewhere and I know where and how long they're going to be gone, and I know who you were with last nigh, and your best friend's name is Betty. Right?"(739). Arnold took a lot of time to stalk and research her life and her family. He said that he took a special interest in a pretty young thing (739). ARNOLD IS AN OLDER MAN INTRTESTED IN YOUNGER GIRLS. HE FORCED CONNIE TO COME WITH HIM, HE TREATENED HER AND HER FAMILY IF SHE DID NOT COME WITH HER.

HE TOLD CONNIE THAT IT WOULD BE A SHAMED TO HAVE HER FAMILY COME HOME WHEN HE IS THEIR. HE TOLD CONNIE, IT WOULD BE A SHAME IF YOUR PARENTS CAME HOME. THEN I WOULD HAVE TO TAKE CARE OF THEM ALSO. SO AT THE END SHE WENT WITH HIM IN ODER TO SAVE HER FAMILY FROM HARM.

ARNOLD IS A CHILD PEDIFILIER WITH NO REMORSE OR HONOR. HE PREYS ON YOUNG GIRLS AND FORCES THEM TO COME WITH HIM, IF NOT HE WILL HURT THEIR FAMILY AND FRINEDS.

[Message #3 10:49:58 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Chris Milano:

Connie was fifteen years old.She had a nervous giggling habit.Connie was in high school.Connie was very vein.Connie was full of herself.She had selfish relationships with others.Her conceited personality was the characteristic that stood out the most in her.She was somewhat lazy, an outsider, and a dreamer.

Her relationship with her mother wasn't a good one.She resented her mother to the point that she wished her death.A physical trait that stood out with her was her blonde hair.Her personality was also two sided, meaning that she showed one personality at home, and showed a different one outside her home.

She ran off with off with Arnold Friend to forget about her problems, thinking that leaving would solve the problem.

[Message #4 10:48:36 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Roger Villegas:

Arnold Friend can best be described as a conniving manipulator who can get anyone to do what he wants. He drove a jalopy and dressed and acted like the stereotypical "rebel." Describing Arnold's fiendish character (reminiscent of the big bad wolf) the narrator says, ". . . sniffing as if she were a treat he was going to gobble up and it was all a joke. The way he straightened and recovered from his fit of laughing showed that it had all been fake." To the young and innocent Connie (Little Red Riding Hood), Arnold's attractive appearance, carefully crafted words, and barrels of testosterone made willing to give in to his desire of getting her to ride with him. She couldn't quite figure him out and that made him dangerous and adventurous, something she was looking for.

[Message #5 10:51:50 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

angela castiglinoi:

Connie has many characteristics that stand out to me. The story starts off by saying how whenever she gets the chance she looks at her reflection. You do not meet to many people who are like that. I can imagine her long dark blonde hair, as the book says draws everyones eyes to it. She also was described as looking different when she is at home, this shows me that she has little family values and also when she did not want to go to the barbeque shows me that she cares little about spending time with her family. This most likely comes from the constant comparing of Connie to her sister from her mother. Connie's mother explains, "Why don't you keep your room clean like your sister? ... -what the hell stinks? Hair spray? You don't see your sister using that junk" ( p 734 ). Connie also seems o have little to no relationship with her father, which may also result in her taking interest in boys she does not know.

Connie is interested in hanging out with her friends, we were told how she would go to the shopping plaza with them up to four nights a week. This is where she ended up seeing Arnold for the first time. Connie likes attention, I could tell this by the way she reacted the first time she saw Arnold at the eatery they go to on the other side of the freeway to hang out with the high school kids. Oates explains, "Connie slit her eyes at him and turned away, but she couldn't help glancing back and there he was still watching her" (736). Also when he came to her house, she liked to tease him by acting somewhat cold to him even though she wanted to see him. With the assumption that Connie craves attention and loves to receive it, I think this is why she ended up going with Arnold, because she wanted to because he told her she was pretty. Arnold told her nice things at first that Connie does not hear from her family. She ultimately enjoyed the attention until it became weird for her, this is why she went with Arnold. He was mysterious and she liked it.

[Message #6 10:50:59 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Jennifer Rivera:

In "Where Are You Going, Where Have You Been?," Joyce Carol Oates portrays Connie in a superficial light. Looks, boys, and popularity are all that seems to matter to her. Oates writes, "Connie would raise her eyebrow at these familiar complaints and look right through her mother, into a shadowy vision of herself as she was right at that moment: she [Connie] and that was everything" (734). I am not really sure where the source of this is from. Her mother constantly praising June, Connie's sister, and not Connie can be the reason behind this. Perhaps, Connie thinks that June has everything else but looks on her side, so that's her department, or this could all be about adolescence. Looks matter because no one will pay attention to you if you're considered ugly.

Connie's relationship with her family is of an outsider looking in. She does not go to the picnic with her family. She does not like her family, and she does not show her family what she is really like other than being vain. She has two sides to herself. Connie had two sides, one with her family and one with everyone else. Oates writes, "Everything about her had two sides to it, one for home and one for anywhere that was not her home: her walk that could be childlike and bobbing, or languid enough to make anyone think she was hearing music in her head…" (735). I don't know if Connie does this on purpose, but it seems that neither groups, family or friends, know who she really is. I think that it's natural for you to act one way with you friends and another way with your family, but in my opinion, respect is the only difference. Sure, you have different relationships with each of them; the closeness should not be the same, but it should be there in some degree.

This might lead to why Connie leaves with Arnold Friend because she does not feel that she knows anyone. She does not have true bonds with her family or anyone else for that matter that can make her feel sure of herself. Her lack of confidence in herself comes from not feeling that she could share her true self with anyone else. Therefore, Connie probably thinks that she could not do anything productive, like calling the police. What good would it do her? She loses hope without truly trying to save herself. Yelling at him to go away is not good enough.

[Message #8 10:55:40 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Karen Wong:

[Message #9 10:56:35 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

angela castiglinoi:

Do you guys think that Arnold was really 30, or was he Connies age?

[Message #10 10:56:29 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Chris Milano:

He was 30.

[Message #11 10:54:55 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Ricardo Salas:

I think connie left with Arnold out of fear of harm to her family. He said that he would hurt her family if she didn't come with her. I don't think she left with him because he said she was pretty and all. So I don't think she left willinly, I think it was out of fear

[Message #12 10:56:49 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Jennifer Rivera:

I think that you made an interesting point Angela where you wrote that the nice things that Arnold said were things that she did not hear from her family. I think that she did enjoy the attention at first too. I also think that at first Arnold looked attractive to her, but then she noticed his age, height, and other oddities, and she realized that nothing was what it seemed to be.

[Message #13 10:55:32 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Roger Villegas:

What do you think his name signifies?

[Message #14 10:58:29 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

angela castiglinoi:

She ultimately left due to fear but I think she was first drawn to him because he was saying things she liked to hear.

[Message #15 10:58:12 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Chris Milano:

irony

[Message #16 10:58:57 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

angela castiglinoi:

I don't think his last name was really Friend.

[Message #17 10:58:27 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Chris Milano:

Unfriendly

[Message #18 10:58:55 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Chris Milano:

Most guys say things women like to hear. at first anyways

[Message #20 11:00:05 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

angela castiglinoi:

So what do you think happened to her?

[Message #21 10:58:26 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Roger Villegas:

Yeah I heard somewhere that the real meaning behind the name reveals itself when you become a cryptographer and take out the r's in Arnold Friends name to get: An old Fiend

[Message #22 11:01:53 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

angela castiglinoi:

That makes sense

[Message #23 11:01:08 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Jennifer Rivera:

Connie did want to figure out Arnold. He did at first look like a rebel, but his image started to change as soon as she noticed that he was not young, that Ellie was like forty, and that he made himself look taller. He wanted to be that rebel because that is what the young girls wanted. That was what Connie wanted. Someone dark and mysterious. I think that the closer he got to her the more she grew afraid of him, but it was like her fear stopped her from being smart. She did have the phone in her hand.

[Message #25 11:01:45 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Roger Villegas:

Yeah I'm agreeing that she did want to figure him out and maybe she did, but she was blinded and was too slow

[Message #26 11:03:32 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Jennifer Rivera:

She definitely was slow.

[Message #28 11:04:50 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Jennifer Rivera:

Oh yeah. There's a movie on this story.

TOP

11:10 Parasols

[Message #2 11:41:03 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Corky Silva:

Connie seems to be a normal young girl of the age 15 with very normal values and interests. She first sees Arnold when she is on a date with a male friend and they are about to leave from eating. The sources of her values and interests comes from being a teenager in high school and just wanting to enjoy life. When she first sees him he is in his car and staring at her with a grin. He was pointing at her and saying, "Gonna get you, baby" (736). At the ripe age of 15, young girls tend to look up to older men in awe. They have a tendency to create crushes on older men so, it is feasible to ascertain that she may have decided to go with him because she felt that he was cool and interesting, mainly because he was older. When she sees him again, in front of her house, she notices that the clothes that he is wearing make him out to have a bad boy style. To her he seemed like he had been drinking, which is a cause for her to think he is cool and a rebel. These qualities in a person are a great attraction to young people who are controlled by the laws of the land. During this time in the United States, the rebellious "James Dean" type of person was a great affrodisiac for most young ladies.

[Message #3 11:42:33 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Alice Wong:

Connie is a very pretty girl with "long dark blond hair that drew anyone's eye to it" (735). She has two different ways of expressing herself; "Everything about her had two sides to it, one for home and one for anywhere that was not home" (735). The image she has at home is dull and quiet compare to the rebellious and outgoing look she gives when she is out with her friends. Connie "had a quick nervous giggling habit of craning her neck to glance into mirrors, or checking other people's faces to make sure her own was all right" (734). This shows her insecurity about her image that she puts on to her family, friends and even herself. Her relationship with her mom is not very bonded. The two can get along even though the mother constantly compares Connie to her older sister June. Connie thinks that since her mother complains about her behaviors and the way she look that the mom might actually love her more then her sister because she is prettier than June. As with her sister, they do not converse very much and they don't seem to have much in common. The father is "away at work most of the time and when he came home he wanted supper and he read the newspaper at supper and after supper he went to bed. He didn't bother talking much to them…" (734). She likes going to the mall, movies and a restaurant across from the movie theater with her friend. It is at the restaurant, where older kids hang out, that she meets most of the guys she socializes with. The way the story implies Connie's character seems to be the type of girl that is just out for a good time regardless of the consequences

[Message #4 11:42:54 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Ricardo Arellano:

A: Connie's personality plays an important role throughout the story. For one thing she's an impressionable teenage girl only beginning to discover the intriguing joys of being a teenager, "…it was summer vacation…getting in her mother's way and thinking, dreaming, about the boys she met. But all the boys fell back and dissolved into a single face that was not even a face, but and idea, a feeling, mixed up with the urgent insistent pounding of the music and the humid night air of July" (Oates 736). Her curiosity draws her to the happening crowd, such as the diner she and her girlfriends secretly go to. Her personality is well accepted by her peers, hence reassuring her perspective of being a young and beautiful teenage girl.

Connie's impressionable and gullible personality promotes her to give into Arnold's proposition to go for a joy ride. Connie, despite her reluctance, is convinced toward the end that maybe it would be good to give Arnold the benefit of the doubt. Although, she's scared Arnold gets the best of her, convincing her to go for a joy ride.

If maybe her family were more supportive of her then maybe she would have a better perspective on boys, being a teenager etc. In other words, her family is not the best for disciplining Connie on the facts of the teenage life. After all she's only a teenager, who is going through puberty.

Overall Connie's inexperienced perspective on being a young beautiful teenager misleads her to learn the facts by trial and error. She will probably learn what the reality of integrating an older teenage life.

[Message #5 11:41:04 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Devika Naicker:

I think Connie, a teenager is the one who stands out most because she is only 15 years old and seems to be very assertive. Although, she thinks that she is the prettiest she is a more sophisticated character in the story. Her sources of her interests derives from the way she is brought up, that is she is mostly compared with her sister who is about 9 years older than her which makes her make generalizations as to who is better than the other in every category of their life. Connie lives with her parents and her 24 year old sister, June. She also seems to have a boyfriend, Eddy. Arnold Friend is able to convince Connie to go with him because he is willing to offer her things that she cannot think of anyone else who wants to do the same. In the passage where it mentions, "She watched herself push the door slowly open as if she were safe back somewhere in the other doorway, watching this body and this head of long hair moving out into the sunlight where Arnold Friend waited" (746).

[Message #6 11:45:12 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Corky Silva:

Alice, do you think that her mannerisms are a sign of insecurity or pride? Maybe when she is looking at others to compare, it is because she has that sense that she is more beautiful than them and she is just checking her competition out.

[Message #7 11:46:29 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Karen Wong:

[Message #8 11:45:36 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Krystle Castillo:

Arnold Friend is a baby faced twenty something man who is trying to seduce the fifteen-year-old protagonist, Connie. Friend's attitude is suave and tenacious. He's a young rebel with a fancy hot rod car. He wore " tight faded jeans stuffed into black, scudded boots, a belt that pulled his waist in.." (739). Connie was impressed by his outerwear but not by his demanding attitude. Friend won't leave until Connie agrees to go with him.

[Message #9 11:46:42 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Ricardo Arellano:

Alice> so do you think that Connie's misconception of herself is advanced by her family more than by herself? That is do you think her family doesn't do much to help her integrate into the life of a gullible teenager?

[Message #10 11:50:13 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Corky Silva:

wow, protagonist, that's a serious word

[Message #11 11:51:14 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Alice Wong:

Corky, that might be true. Although I think it leans more toward insecurity because if a person is confident, then they would have to constantly make sure their appearance is good. As for competition, being teenagers that she was, it's bound to happen. Although I think it's still a way for her to give herself confidence by telling herself she is prettier the others to make herself feel good.

[Message #12 11:52:26 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Corky Silva:

I would agree with that, because when you're in high school you are almost always comparing yourself to your peers to make sure you are dressed cool and in the mainstream. So, her ways of checking people out could be a way to make sure she fits in with everyone around her.

[Message #13 11:53:56 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Alice Wong:

Ricardo, her family doesn't really help her. Her father was not always in the picture, and her mother always compare her to her sister. If a teenage goes through this sort of life everyday, how can they know how a teenage should be?

[Message #14 11:55:04 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Karen Wong:

Corky, good connection with the icons that were pervasive during that period. In so many ways her life is so humdrum and typically suburban; someone in my last class suggested that she was enamored of the freedom that Arnold Friend offered her, even if it was self destructive.

[Message #15 11:54:07 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Corky Silva:

they would know by watching their peers around them, which would be the people at the diner, the older crew that she admired.

[Message #16 11:55:38 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Alice Wong:

I think fitting into the school environment is very important to Connie because she doesn't seem to fit at home. So in order for her to feel like there is something to live for, she wants to fit into her social life at school.

[Message #17 11:53:28 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Ricardo Arellano:

Corky> Do you think that maybe Connie was blind to see who the real Arnold was initially? I think that she was only seeing through Arnold and was impresse only by his aura, that is his superficial presence. And maybe she frets when Arnold makes his way toward her trying to convince her to go along for the ride, because she realizes he's only a "bad boy." But when she's convinced to go out with Arnold do you think she sees through all the artificial integrity that outlines Arnold and sees who Arnold truly is, which is what maybe convinces her to go with him?

[Message #18 11:56:22 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Karen Wong:

Alice, the dualities technique works very well, as you compare and contrast her image out with her friends and inside the home.

[Message #19 11:54:52 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Krystle Castillo:

I agree w/ you Alice. Her mother doesn't offer her any support. She favors her older sister, June.

[Message #20 11:55:31 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Corky Silva:

Karen, yes she seemed to be a typical child controlled by her parents in a time when parents had serious control, sometimes physically, over their children.

[Message #21 11:55:59 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Ricardo Arellano:

[Message #22 11:53:51 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Devika Naicker:

I think that she presently thinks that there is not much going on in her life and what Arnold is offering to do is something, a typical outgoing girl would be looking forward to, especially if she feels trapped with her parents with continuos comparisons and criticisms.

[Message #23 11:58:47 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Alice Wong:

There was a lot of control back then over everything their child does because they were supposed to follow their parents footsteps...Physically, as Connie's appearance at home (dull and unexciting) versus her appearance with friends (wild and adventurous).

[Message #24 11:58:15 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Corky Silva:

Ricardo, I believe that at this time in life, teenagers were very naive to the evil surroundings that could possibly hurt them. It is very easy for us to look back and make responses about her since we have a lot of history to fall back on and study.

[Message #25 12:00:07 PM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Alice Wong:

I agree with you Corky...we learned from their mistakes and that gave us an advantage they didn't have

[Message #26 11:58:31 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Ricardo Arellano:

Over all the misconception teenagers have at such an age intrigues them to have a yen for discovery of the older life.

[Message #27 12:00:03 PM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Krystle Castillo:

Most girls are fascinated w/ the "bad boy" image. It's their spontaneity, impulsiveness, that makes a man attractive. He keeps you guessing. He's unpredictable. There's no telling what he's up to.

[Message #28 11:59:35 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Ricardo Arellano:

But, I don't think there has been too a significant change to help teenage kids adapt to the real world...at least more so outside the US.

[Message #29 12:01:07 PM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Corky Silva:

ricardo, that is at any time, kids today are still so intrigued by people slightly older.

[Message #30 12:01:58 PM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Alice Wong:

Ricardo...Then again most teenager feel that they know everything and the adults are the "dumb" ones.

[Message #31 12:00:23 PM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Ricardo Arellano:

But since we are talking of the US. i will have to agree with Corky...on the evolution of teenagers' tools to adapt to life.

[Message #32 12:02:36 PM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Alice Wong:

therefore they will tend to go for people slightly older like Corky said

[Message #33 12:02:33 PM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Corky Silva:

Kyrstle, i agree with that but, that image does make some women shy away, which is what was happening to connie in the beginning when she met arnold, the intimidation was stronger than the curiosity.

[Message #34 12:03:26 PM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Alice Wong:

Krystle...I agreed with you about how girls are fascinated with the "bad boy" image.

[Message #37 11:59:39 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Devika Naicker:

People are bound to make mistakes, especially if they are pressured or when they see an incentive to break through. Who knows what if they are probably meant for each other because I think both of them have found what they were looking for.

[Message #38 12:06:12 PM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Alice Wong:

Devika...I don't think they both found what they were looking for. I got the impression that Arnold was just a guy that is determined to get what he wants even if it means that he has to killed. While Connie was naive and torn as to what she should do and whether or not the decision would save her family's life.

[Message #39 12:04:37 PM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Ricardo Arellano:

Well...I simply think that Connie is a young teenage girl in the American society that is naive and susceptible to be lured in by older men. She is interested in indulging herself in new experiences to help her associate into the new teenage life.

[Message #40 12:02:51 PM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Devika Naicker:

I think they both are ready to settle for what's in front of them, regardless.

TOP

11:10 Sand

[Message #2 11:41:25 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Nelson Ho:

The narrator depicts Connie as a young lady who deeply believes her looks are beautiful, as she has a "giggling habit of craning her neck to glance into mirrors, or checking other people's faces to make sure her own was all right" (Oates 734). Further, Connie has no interest to be like her older sister June, who is always organized and does everything her mother wants (734). And because her mother always scolds her for being "filled with trashy daydreams", Connie wishes that her "mother was dead" (734). Connie, like many teenagers, is interested in popular music meeting people of the opposite sex. One time she meets a boy named Eddie and goes "down an alley a mile or so away", doing something secretive and maybe illegal (736). The American culture during the time of the story may due to Connie's indulgence in materials. Arnold Friend, depicted to be a strong and muscular man, threatens Connie that she will break into the house if she does not go out with him (743). He also knows everything about her, telling her everything detail what her family is doing and the all the names of her friends. Arnold Friend, a mysterious figure, tells her that if she does not listen her family will be in trouble. Connie, not having a good relationship with her family, does not care about her family that much; but as a lady indulges in materialistic goods, she realizes that Arnold Friend knows too much about her and is a dangerous man. Connie is cognizant that he is capable of not only hurting her family but herself if she doesn't listen to him. Therefore, she cannot but leave with him.

[Message #3 11:42:27 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Maribel Baliwag:

In the short story "Where Are You Going, Where Have you Been? We find the presentation of opposing characters with lives that are far from alike. Connie was a rebel daughter who thought very highly of herself, and flaunted her lifestyle and never really understood the people around her. . She lived her life focused on herself and never really liked her mother, and sister June. Connie is a great example of a savage youth whose curiosity is at its prime. She was interested greatly in many boys and found that she will soon be dancing with a devil (Arnold Friend). Tempations take the most of her throughout the story as she gets persuaded to leave her house. Interestingly, it seemed that she was getting a taste of her own medicine.

All her life her has ignored her "home life" and chose to be out and about with her friends, and helping herself. "Everything about her had two sides to it, one for home and one for anywhere that was not home" (735). She was very odd. He mother didn't like the was she carried herself and compared her to her sister most of the time. Connie only valued herself, and never really bothered about anything but herself.

Arnold Friend is a man that she spotted while she was out with her friends at a diner. For some reason he was very interested in her and found out everything about her. The next day he arrives at her house begging her to go for a ride. This moment was a true test for Connie. For she knew that she never really liked being home, but realizes the value of being home at that moment. She found that the kitchen looked different- a change she never knew was there, all because she may have never been home for a while. Connie finds that Arnold was the fantasy she may have been waiting for. Connie became that rebel youth and fell into the temptations of Arnold Friend. Connie knew she had nothing to lose. It seemed like the two of them had something in their life that hey were hiding. Although she was hesitant she still gave it. Arnold was a symbol of her conscious.

[Message #4 11:40:11 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Danny Azar:

The character of Arnold Friend in the short story "Where Are You Going, Where Have You Been" is very intriguing. Arnold Friend is a grown man that tries to pass himself off for a teenager, by dressing and acting the way a teenager would act. What stands out about Friend is that his physical appearance makes it appear as if he is wearing a costume. Arnold Friend tries to get down all aspects of teenage life- dress, language, hang out spots- in order to fool young teenage girls and victimize them. In one part of the story Friend runs through a list of terms that are considered the type of slang words a teenager would use, "Don't hem in on me. Don't Hog. Don't Crush. Don't bird dog. Don't trail me."(744). Friend seems to live his life for one purpose and he puts all his efforts into this purpose, which is to abduct young girls and have his way with them.

[Message #5 11:45:08 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

DAVID RUIZ:

Connie is a very pretty fifteen-year-old girl who is overly concerned with her beauty. She has a bad relationship with her mother because her mother is always discouraging her telling her that she should be more like her sister. She needs people to tell her that she is beautiful and make her feel good about herself because she lacks that from her family. That is why she is happy when she goes out to the city and all the boys give her attention. Also since Arnold friend gives her so much attention and he praises her so much she begins to have more confidence with him, though at first she was freaked out, and decides to go with him on a ride.

[Message #6 11:46:25 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Karen Wong:

[Message #7 11:48:08 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Nelson Ho:

David -- Do you think Arnold is attractive to Connie in any way?

[Message #8 11:43:52 PM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Mario Rosales-mejia:

Connie was a teenager with Psychological disorders, she obsession with her look; she was insecure with her person, "she has to look other people to reaffirm her good looking. She was fifteen and she had a quick nervous goggling habit of craning her neck to glance into the mirrors, or checking other people's face to make sure her own was all right"(Oat 734). Connie problems probably were product of her mother authoritarian figure.

[Message #9 11:51:49 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

DAVID RUIZ:

Yes he is because he is mysterious and he is a ticket out of her usual boring family life.

[Message #10 11:50:44 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Maribel Baliwag:

Nelson- its true, she did like heself ALOT! It shows haw people thought during that time period and how it may reflect of people today. Did you find it interesting the way she enjoyed music?- and how she seemed to be dreaming to some extent? or maybe the "arnold" figure may have been just a mirage.... something she thought of because she wanted people to like her so much. She peolable thought of Arnold Friend because he was the only one who paid so much attention to her.

[Message #11 11:52:21 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Nelson Ho:

David Ruiz -- I agree with you too (though i sorta left that out in my response) I think the way he dresses: "tight faded jeans stuffed into black, suffed boots" and his muscular body attract the attention of Connie (739).

[Message #12 11:53:31 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Nelson Ho:

Maribel -- Nice point. I didn't think of Arnold being a mirage. I mean, it seems like Arnold is a perfect guy for her (except his age, that is).

[Message #13 11:49:36 PM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Mario Rosales-mejia:

I think her mother was authoritarian, too hard with a 15 years old girl,

[Message #14 11:51:19 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Danny Azar:

I believe she was in love with the idea of boys giving her attention- and that it didn't matter much who the boy was, as long as he fell into the mold of the cool teenager type

[Message #15 11:55:41 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Nelson Ho:

Mario -- Well, since her mother has a daughter who has always behaved probably, she expects Connie to be the same like her sister. In the point of view of a mother, she's not being too harsh.

[Message #16 11:55:01 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Maribel Baliwag:

Mario that's an interesting point that you bring up about psychological behaviors. People always need reassurance. Connie just takes it too far! this may bring up the point that she was very insecure about herself. Yes, she may be a reflection of her mother... and maybe that is why her mother treats her the way she does- because she wants Connie to change.

[Message #17 11:57:58 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Karen Wong:

Wasn't Arnold's knowledge of Connie and her family uncanny? How do you suppose he was able to secure all of this information about them? And how does he use it to manipulate Connie in to going with him?

[Message #18 11:53:42 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Danny Azar:

he stalked her

[Message #19 11:58:32 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Nelson Ho:

Karen -- I think Arnold is a psycho who has spied on her for a long time. Remember when Connie goes out with Eddie? She sees "a boy with shaggy black hair, in a convertible jalopy painted gold" who stares at her with a grin (736).

That guy is likely to be Arnold

[Message #21 11:55:10 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Danny Azar:

he uses all the information to make connie feel at ease and that everything will be ok

[Message #22 11:57:34 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Maribel Baliwag:

Danny- I agree. Connie was taken at the moment and new that she was getting all that attention from someone.

[Message #23 11:54:14 PM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Mario Rosales-mejia:

Nelson, you can not treat two persons in the same way,

[Message #24 11:56:13 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Danny Azar:

which two persons are you refering to

[Message #25 12:00:06 PM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Nelson Ho:

Mario -- Which two persons? Could you be more specific? The guy that stares at Connie with a grin is obviously not Eddie but some guy on the street whom Connie does not know.

[Message #26 11:55:07 PM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Mario Rosales-mejia:

Two sisters

[Message #27 12:01:50 PM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

DAVID RUIZ:

Danny- Yeah, she just liked the attention she was excited when she was with eddie but it says it had nothing to do with eddie just the music and the pleasure of being alive she felt alive because she was receiving positive attention for once

[Message #28 12:00:45 PM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Nelson Ho:

Oh two sisters. Well, I am just telling you how some mothers like to compare one child with another. That's not necessarily my point of view, you see.

[Message #29 12:01:19 PM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Nelson Ho:

Mario -- I have a mother myself. She used to compare me to other people my age.

[Message #30 11:56:50 PM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Mario Rosales-mejia:

Connie and her sister,the mother expect connie act like her sister

[Message #31 11:57:18 PM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Mario Rosales-mejia:

Nelson I'm sorry about that

[Message #32 11:59:15 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Danny Azar:

Why are you sorry- all parents do that

[Message #33 12:06:04 PM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

DAVID RUIZ:

But they shouldn't

[Message #34 12:03:52 PM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Maribel Baliwag:

Karen- Arnold's knowledge was very strange. That is what led me to believe that he was just a mirage- or some type of dreamy figure. Connie was last seen bathing in that sun before her family left for the party. She may have been dreaming about the "Arnold" figure taking her away from all her troubles caress her with all her needs. Connie has been craving for this type of attention and it is exactly what she found with Arnold in his dream. Possibly, this may bring up the psychological aspect of her repressed thought. Maybe it was Connies unconscious desires talking to herself thorugh Arnold Friend- in Connies dream...

[Message #35 12:05:42 PM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Nelson Ho:

David -- well, when you become a parent, you might do the same things.

[Message #37 12:08:01 PM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

DAVID RUIZ:

It hurts a child's self esteem you should point out the good points in your child and you should tell them things in their life that they could improve but not compare them to others because everyone is different and everyone has his faults

TOP

11:10 Starfish

[Message #2 11:34:49 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Sara Powers:

The character Arnold Friend seems to represent the Devil. There are many physical characteristics that lead you to believe he is not a typical person. For example, the skin around his eyes are "like holes that were not in shadow but instead in light" (739). This is a strange description of someone and makes him sound inhuman. Also, his feet do not fit in his boots right. The Devil is often represented as having hooves instead of feet, which could cause Arnold Friend's legs not to fit into his shoes. His personality is also very Devil-like. He tempts Connie to get into his car, as the Devil tempted Adam and Eve with the apple. He is very persuasive toward Connie, and tries to get her to go for a ride when that is against all of the morals Connie had been taught. Arnold Friend has made up his mind that Connie is the one he wants, and he will stop at nothing to get her. He knows information about Connie that is difficult to find out unless you have the power to be anywhere at anytime. Arnold Friend has ways of finding out things about anyone, that are impossible for a human being to find out. Connie describes him as having "come from nowhere before that and belonged nowhere" (741). This shows that he might not be a human being, since he came from nowhere and belongs nowhere. When Connie does finally agree to go with Arnold Friend, he takes her to an unfamiliar place. She describes "land behind him and on all sides of him, so much land that Connie had never seen before and did not recognize except to know that she was going to it" (746). He is obviously not just taking her for a ride around her neighborhood. He has chosen her to come with him to a strange and unfamiliar place, possibly like Hell. Even the character's name represents evil. The name Arnold Friend, if you remove the two R's, is An Old Fiend, or the Devil.

[Message #3 11:36:24 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

jason bradshaw:

Arnold Friend was a creepy man who seemed to be either handicapped "One of his boots was at a strange angle, as if his foot wasn't in it" (pg 743), or was wearing a disguise "black hair as if a wig" (pg 741). He was a persuasive man who was able to manipulate and some how seduce Connie with his voice into believing and following him.

Arnold seemed to have a odd relationship with his friend Ellie. His relationship with Ellie was controlling "shut up she's not your date, she's mine". These qualities were the very reason Connie left with him, he was able to control her and manipulate her to do whatever he wanted by telling her what he wanted. Arnold was much older who tried to appear younger so Connie and appeared to be very convincing and the manner in which he kept his composer and was able not only to control every situation but by not being shocked or alarmed by Connie threatening to call the police. Arnold was able to coach her into putting the phone down and leave with him.

[Message #4 11:39:13 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Stefan Yeung:

In the beginning of the story the author Joyce Carol Oates started to describe what kind of person Connie was. Connie was a fifteen year old girl that in some ways kind of vain. Her mother notices that Connie always looks at herself, so she says "Stop gawking at yourself, who are you? You think you're so pretty" (Oates 734). By what her mother said just proves that Connie is really into herself and her looks. Connie was also the type of person that wasn't just into her own looks, but she was also into products that would enhance her appearance. She also had this long dark blond hair that everyone would notice, and a high, amused voice that made everything she said sound a little forced. Overall, Connie is a self-conscience fifteen year old that is really into everything that is one the outside, and doesn't really care much for the things on the inside. Out of the two characters I thought that Connie stood out more than Arnold Friend, because the story starts out talking about Connie and Arnold is just one of those characters that ends up meeting with the main character. Also, when Connie met Arnold and when they had their conversation on whether or not Connie should leave with him; that passage seems like that is was mainly about Connie, not really about Arnold. When Arnold finally convince Connie to leave with him is maybe because, that Connie's family couldn't give her the support that Connie really needed. At home Connie got a lot criticism from her mother, her sister, and even aunties from her family. Since her family couldn't give her that support, she turned to someone like Arnold.

[Message #5 11:41:49 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Bertha Flores:

Connie is a fifteen-year-old girl that likes to go out with her friends and talk to boy. She likes to listen to music because it relaxes her. She likes to go to restaurant with her best friend Betty, but tells her parents she's going to the mall: "Sometimes they did go shopping or to the movie, but sometimes they went across the highway, ducking fast across the busy road, to a drive-in restaurant where older kids hung out"(Oates 735). She is has dark blonde hair. Her interest with boys I believe influence her decision about going with Arnold Friend, she did not have a strong father figure that would tell her what was best for her. Her father seems not to be interest in his family life. He does not ask question about where his girls have been, he would drop Connie off at the mall pick her up later on that night without asking any questions:" when he came to pick them up again at eleven he never bothered to ask what they had done' (Oates 735). When Arnold came to her and told sweet talk she fell for it because she did not have a strong male figure telling her what was the best for her.

[Message #6 11:47:25 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Nicholas Win:

Connie's character is very much self-involved. She does not care much for family or the people who care about her. Her interests are only aimed at herself. On page 734, the author states "… she knew she was pretty, and that was everything …" Within her character, also exists an immature child. Her life is carefree in a sense. Her parents do not discipline her in any way. She does not know how to handle Arnold Friend. She gives up and resigns as a child would do in a moment of desperation.

[Message #7 11:46:34 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Karen Wong:

[Message #8 11:41:48 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Sara Powers:

Nicholas: I agree that Connie is childlike, but are you saying the only reason she agreed to go with Arnold Friend is that she didn't know how to say no?

[Message #9 11:43:12 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

jason bradshaw:

Sara your ideas were insightful I never even thought of him as the devil, I thought he was a man experienced in his methods of abducting, a master of manipulation of the young inexperienced minds.

[Message #10 11:49:59 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Nicholas Win:

what I'm saying is, she didn't know what else to do.

[Message #11 11:44:24 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Sara Powers:

Jason, this story was supposed to be written about a serial killer that seduced young girls, but I couldn't see it in that way. Arnold Friend didn't seem like he would be interested in any other girls except for Connie

[Message #12 11:52:21 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Nicholas Win:

Sara,He would probably use the same lines on other females.

[Message #13 11:45:15 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Sara Powers:

Jason why do you think Arnold Friend treated Ellie that way?

[Message #14 11:50:07 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Karen Wong:

Sarah, amazing response-- I could see many of the ways that he was like the devil especially due to the supernatural feel to the events. But something that didn't occur to me was his name; where does "An Old Friend" originate from?

[Message #15 11:46:05 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Sara Powers:

I don't know where it originates from..?

[Message #16 11:48:25 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Stefan Yeung:

Sara i never thought of Arnold as the Devil, i always thought that he was some one that acted as a safety net for Connie to fall back on.

[Message #17 11:47:00 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

jason bradshaw:

Sara I agree but to be able to manipulate and seduce someone don't you need to make them feel like the only one.

[Message #18 11:46:41 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Sara Powers:

Nicholas, but if he could use the same line and get any girl, why would he spend so much time on Connie? Why not give up and go to someone else?

[Message #19 11:47:43 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Sara Powers:

That is true, Stefan. Maybe it is her evil ways that she is able to fall back on.

[Message #20 11:48:24 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

jason bradshaw:

I thought Arnold treated his acquaintance that way to make him seem less important. By making his friend seem to mean so little he gave the allusion that Connie meant so much

[Message #21 11:50:33 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Bertha Flores:

Sara i believe that the devil spend time with her because if he is the devil then he can be at many places at the same time.

[Message #22 11:52:43 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Karen Wong:

Bertha, interesting points about Connie lacking a strong male figure. What also occurred to me was how dependent Connie is on others. She has to get a ride to the mall because she doesn't drive or else lacks the means to get around. Also, she goes out with Eddie to get a hamburger. She is unable to be dependent.

[Message #23 11:49:03 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Sara Powers:

Jason and Bertha, both good points. Maybe he was seducing other girls at the same moment, but making each feel as important as Connie.

[Message #24 11:51:10 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Stefan Yeung:

jason i also agree with you... Arnold was just another guy that was manipulating girls to i guess... to get his way... like when he tried to act a lot younger when he was actually a lot older.

[Message #25 11:52:13 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Bertha Flores:

KAREN-i believe her parents and eveorment influence Connie to make her decision because she was not going to miss her life at home.

[Message #26 11:49:13 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Tiffany Chuc:

From the beginning of the story, we already know that Connie is self absorb. All she cares is herself and her looks. In other words, she is an immature little teenager.

[Message #27 11:51:02 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Sara Powers:

Which serial killer was this story based on? Was it an older man who pretended to be younger?

[Message #28 11:54:08 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Bertha Flores:

Sara i like the way you look at Arnold, i did not think of him as the devil but just some one that could had been a killer or a rapist. good points.

[Message #29 11:51:33 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Sara Powers:

Tiffany, so that is why she went with Arnold Friend? Because she is so self-absorbed that she likes anyone who likes her?

[Message #30 11:52:30 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Sara Powers:

Bertha, Arnold COULD just be a killer or rapist, who happened to have a lot of connections to finding out information about his victims. His disguise could just be to make girls think he is younger.

[Message #31 12:01:11 PM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Nicholas Win:

What would have happened if Connie had waited without picking up the phone?

[Message #32 11:57:02 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Bertha Flores:

Tiffany - i do think the Connie was self-absorbed, but that's not the only reasons why she would leave with him, i believe that her family ways to treat her had a big impact on her decision.

[Message #33 11:54:40 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Sara Powers:

Nicholas - waited for what?

[Message #34 12:02:14 PM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Nicholas Win:

for her family to come home

[Message #35 11:58:15 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Bertha Flores:

Nicholas i think he would have come in even though he was telling her he woul not but that was only to keep her relax.

[Message #36 11:55:38 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Sara Powers:

Good question. If he really is the Devil, maybe he would make the family not come home. Or it might not even be an issue, because he knew the whole time that she would go with him.

[Message #37 12:01:17 PM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Bertha Flores:

what do you guys think happened to Connie after she lest home? what did he do with her? kill her? rape her? or really just took her for a drive?

[Message #38 12:06:13 PM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Nicholas Win:

rape her then kill her

[Message #39 12:06:24 PM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Nicholas Win:

or rape her and bring her back home

[Message #40 11:59:23 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Sara Powers:

I think he did more than take her for a drive. It sounds as if he really was infatuated with her. Maybe her forced her to live with him, and maybe she was happy about it because he treated her better than her family.

[Message #41 12:02:06 PM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Bertha Flores:

what about her family?

[Message #42 11:59:37 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Sara Powers:

Nicholas, would a rapist really take the time to bring her back home?

[Message #43 12:00:01 PM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Sara Powers:

Bertha, didn't Arnold Friend tell her that her family has forgotten her? that they no longer know who she is?

[Message #44 12:07:16 PM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Nicholas Win:

yea because a girl this immature would be too scared to tell, and arnold would know that

[Message #46 12:00:28 PM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Sara Powers:

true, but he might not take that risk

[Message #47 12:00:42 PM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Sara Powers:

I think, based on her personality, that she would tell just to get attention

[Message #48 12:08:28 PM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Nicholas Win:

but that could possibly lower her social standing

[Message #49 12:04:12 PM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Bertha Flores:

well its almost time to go nice talking to all, great ideas!!!!!!

[Message #50 12:01:57 PM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Sara Powers:

She would probably risk it, so that people would feel sorry for her, and give her extra attention.

TOP

11:10 Thongs

[Message #2 11:38:23 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

david chen:

Connie is a young girl and has an older sister. She is only 15 years old and very playful Her sister is better looking then her. Her mom likes the older sister more. When the family events come up Connie prefers to stay home rather then go out. Later on in the story she meets this guy in the dinner and thought he was interesting. But before she had a chance to talk to him he left already. Some how later on he shows up at her house and that he tries to convince her to go out with him. Connie turns him down. Later on he was convince to make her go out with him so he breaks into her home and threaten her and try to scared and go out with him.

[Message #3 11:42:20 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Maria Cordonero:

I think that Connie is in love with the idea of being in love. She enjoys boys, but I do not think that she is yet interested in having a real relationship with any particular boy. It is just the thought of experimenting that is appealing to her. When she meets Eddie at the diner and decided to go off with him, it wasn't the thought of being with Eddie that was exciting to her, it was the thought of doing something that she should not be doing that was exciting, "her face gleaming with a joy that had nothing to do with Eddie or even this place; it might have been the music" (734). Music is another reason that Connie chooses to be advantageous with boys. The songs that she listens to send her messages of promised love. The whole idea of being in love is just very fascinating to her that when Arnold Friend shows up she never thinks about the danger. She has no idea who Arnold Friend is, but when he pulls up on her driveway her first concern is her appearance. She does not think about the danger that is person may cause her. She opens the door and begins to have a conversation with him. When Arnold asks her to go out with him for a ride, she asks him where. Connie is this way because she has these fantasies about being in love. She knows that Arnold might be dangerous but at the same time this quality she may find appealing, "She couldn't decide if she liked him or if he was just a jerk" (738). She decides to end up going with him because she felt that she had no choice. She realized that love really isn't what she thought it was.

[Message #4 11:39:09 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Brian Reyes:

Arnold Friend is an eighteen-year old male, who is trying to convince Connie into going out with him and driving around in his car. He is characteristic of the rebels of that era: "the tight jeans…the greasy leather boots and the tight shirt." Also, the sunglasses and the jalopy were traits not uncommon to teenagers during that time. The language Arnold used was very poor grammar. Yet, Friend is very persuasive in his attempts to entice Connie, because the teenage trend stated that bad grammar is seen as "Cool" and "Hip." Arnold refuses to conform to the norms of those they called "the Squares." Arnold made it clear that him and his friend would not leave unless Connie was leaving, as well: "We ain't leaving until you come with us.'"

[Message #5 11:37:40 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Rochelle Gurtler:

Connie had first noticed Arnold Friend when they were at a diner. Connie was walking with another guy, Eddie, to his car either for ride or to make out. When passing the other cars, she noticed him with, "shaggy black hair, in a convertible jalopy painted gold" (736). He was staring at her with a grin. He was pointing at her and laughed saying, "Gonna get you, baby"(736). Like most of the other people at the diner, they he was interested in the other girls and being social with them. Connie and her friends would have to be dropped off and picked up across the street, so that their parents wouldn't know were they had been. The next time Connie would see him was in front of her house.

When Arnold pulled up to her house he was wearing, "tight faded jeans stuffed into black, scuffed boots, a belt that pulled his waist in and showed how lean he was, and a white pull-over shirt that was a little soiled" (739). This look along with the beat up jalopy gave Arnold Friend a bad boy image. Connie was intimidated by him and thought he may have been drunk. She found out that he was only eighteen but she thought he looked a lot older than that. Connie noticed how the boots he had been wearing, "must have been stuffed with something so that he would seem taller" (743).

Arnold Friend is able to convince Connie to go for a ride with him without going into her house.

[Message #7 11:41:17 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

David thomas:

in "Where Are You Going Were Have You Been ?", the author , Joyce Carol Oates includes a rich development of the fifteen year old Connie. Connie is indeptly characterized, as a spoiled and self centered teenage girl. Oates portrays Connie as very superficical. Oates states,"Everything about her had two sides to it, one for home and one

for anywhere but home."(735)

Connie's relationship with her family seems to be difficult. Connie believed"...her mother was so simple."(736) Her mother seemed to be constantly finding chores for Connie to do. Her sister in contrast, was ideal to the family. Her sister was responsible, saved money

and did chores."(734). Connie is invited to the family barbaque, but decides against it. Her mother is upset because it causes her mother to become disillusioned.

Connie is seemingly attractive, and is very conscious of her looks.

[Message #8 11:42:08 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

omar quijano:

Connie is a teenager girl, who lives her life as any common girl in our society. For instance, she cares about her looks; she rebels against her parents, and likes to do most of the things her way. Connie represents the typical spoiled girl, and since her father careless on what she is doing, she finds herself being very liberal. On the other hand, her mother tries to motivate her and follow the example of her sister, which Connie finds repellent. In school, she is the type of girl that gets the attention of the guys, and doesn't have a sense of education. In someway, I believe Connie envies her sister because of her mother, since her mother praise more her sister than her. In the stage that she believes her parents do not like her at all. "If June's name was mentioned her mother's tone was approving, and if Connie's name was mentioned it was disapproving." (Oates 736)

[Message #10 11:40:48 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Rochelle Gurtler:

Maria-I agree with the "in love with the idea of being in love", but don't you also think it's the bad boy image she likes when she glances over everyone and notices Friend.

[Message #11 11:46:20 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Karen Wong:

[Message #12 11:44:02 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Darwin Eustaquio:

Connie is a young innocent girl. She is pretty and she knows it. Her mother is always on her case because she thinks she is too wild, always comparing her to June, Connie's sister. Connie is entering womanhood and becoming aware of her image. She is still innocent though, viewing love as "sweet, gentle, the way it was in movies and promised in songs" (Oates, 737). She is not aware of the dangers of love or attraction. She is not aware that some boys will rape girls to get what they want. Connies values came from rock and roll music and love songs, that is why she viewed love with an innocent eye. She is superficial, going out with her friends many times a week, yet referring to one of them as a "dope" (Oates, 736)

[Message #14 11:48:07 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Maria Cordonero:

I think that June has conformed to what is expected of her. Connie does not want to be like her sister. I feel this is why she goes out of her way to be the opposite of June.

[Message #15 11:46:41 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Darwin Eustaquio:

David Chen, Connie's sister is not prettier than her. She is chunky and unattractive.

[Message #16 11:47:16 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

David thomas:

Connie is a little girl unaware of what is really out there. She maybe doesn't know how some people are.

[Message #17 11:46:15 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

david chen:

seems like connie does not like to attend social gatherings

thanks darwin man did i mess up

[Message #18 11:50:50 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Maria Cordonero:

When I was 15 I also hated to attend family get togethers.

[Message #19 11:46:02 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Rochelle Gurtler:

David-actually he never goes into the house and it's in the beginning of the story that she meets the "interesting" guy. She didn't think he was interesting, she was just leaving with him to get some, she glanced through the cars and saw friend, but didn't think he was "interesting". "Some how later he shows up at her house" do you have any suggestions on why or how he did that?

[Message #20 11:49:24 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

omar quijano:

You think that the guy really wanted to hurt her?

[Message #21 11:50:14 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

David thomas:

I think Connie has a condescending view of her family, she thought of her mom as simple. And her dad was complacent, she might have looked

down on her sister because of the way she looked.

[Message #22 11:50:29 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Darwin Eustaquio:

David Chen, Arnold friend never broke into Connies house, he never went past the screen door.

[Message #24 11:53:36 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Maria Cordonero:

Do you think that Connie went with Arnold for the sake of her family's safety?

[Message #25 11:50:07 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

david chen:

i think the guy was try to make her go out with him.

[Message #27 11:52:05 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

David thomas:

I think he went to her house because he was stalking her, he also went

by the aunt's house who was having the barbecue. He might have followed her around.

[Message #28 11:52:40 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

omar quijano:

If she was so scared why did she decide to go?

[Message #30 11:55:26 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Maria Cordonero:

I think she went because she was scared.

[Message #31 11:53:27 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Darwin Eustaquio:

Maria, I agree with you that Connie was in love with the whole idea of romance. She really had no idea of the dangers involved in the reality of love. It probably never occurred to her that this Arnold just wanted to rape her until it was too late.

[Message #32 11:54:21 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

omar quijano:

Almost at the end of the story, when she feel desperate and scared. She recalls the way her family treats her, and the way do they look at her, do you think this means something?

[Message #35 11:55:00 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Darwin Eustaquio:

Brian Reyes, how do you know Arnold is really 18 years old. That what he says to convince Connie to go with him. The narrators description of Arnold is him being thirty something.

[Message #37 11:55:58 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

David thomas:

Darwin, he told her he was 18, but he might be lying?

[Message #38 11:53:36 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Rochelle Gurtler:

David T- girls always like older guys

[Message #40 11:56:56 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

omar quijano:

True David, she describes him with more details at the end, when he drove to her garage.

[Message #41 11:54:00 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Rochelle Gurtler:

Pervert

[Message #42 11:59:27 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Karen Wong:

Maria, good point about how Connie is drawn more to the idea of love than love with a particular person. What do you suppose shapes her notions about love?

[Message #44 11:57:44 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

David thomas:

Omar what would you do if Arnold stalked you

[Message #46 12:00:51 PM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Maria Cordonero:

Connie was just a naive 15 year old girl who thought she was just more mature than she really was. She probably couldn't talk to her older sister. She definitely could not talk to her mom. And her father never spoke to anybody. So she had to basically live in this fantasy world of love. I think this is part of the reason that she is in love with the idea of love.

[Message #47 12:01:23 PM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Karen Wong:

Rochelle, good descriptions of Arnold, but how is he able to convince her to leave with him? What about his physical looks might she have been drawn to or at least curious about?

[Message #48 11:58:41 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Brian Reyes:

the badboy image is very attractive to young girls because it opened up another side to her.

[Message #49 12:00:07 PM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

omar quijano:

Nice point maria

[Message #50 12:00:08 PM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

David thomas:

He didn't look like a boy her age

[Message #53 12:01:19 PM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

omar quijano:

I think the extrange attracted her. Instead of the image of romeo in the white horse.

[Message #56 11:59:40 AM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Rochelle Gurtler:

who thinks arnold is an incarnation of the devil or some other fairytale villain?

[Message #61 12:05:32 PM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Karen Wong:

Maria, Darwin, and company, she did head into this situation extremely naive, and in part that may be due to the influence of popular culture. How does Arnold Friend take advantage of that influence?

[Message #62 12:03:32 PM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

omar quijano:

Probably she though Arnold can take her to a different world, and she would feel protected.

[Message #63 12:03:51 PM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

David thomas:

By being raped?

[Message #64 12:04:17 PM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

omar quijano:

Hey the story doesn't say how does it end.

[Message #65 12:04:09 PM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Darwin Eustaquio:

Does anybody think that Arnold Friend could have been the devil?

[Message #67 12:04:44 PM, Wednesday, April 18, 2001]

Darwin Eustaquio:

How did he know there was a chunky lady at the barbecue and all that. He seemed to know a little too much, even for a stalker.

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This page was last updated on April 19, 2001. Please direct any inquiries to wongk@smccd.net.

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